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  • Australia sucks **warning -> rant inside**

    Obviously the headline worked then, great.

    Australia doesn't suck, it's one of the greatest if not the greatest country on the planet.

    Allow me to explain a little more on why I used that title though...

    When it comes to dogs, Australia really does suck.

    Ive just gotten back from a trip to Germany. We go there every year or every second year, usually travel to other parts of Europe while we are there.

    Here is the thing. The Europeans have it down pat. Not like us, overly politically correct and scared of anything that may cause potential harm to our beautiful flora and fona and hence we BAN dogs from most national and state parks and well... pretty much everywhere else apart from the street!

    What a disgrace!

    My mother in law is an avid hiker and so I decided I would look online for a good sturdy day hike to pump a little aussie air back into our lungs only to be reminded that Australia is scared to death of dogs dropping nuggets in their profoundly beautiful parks... note sarcasm.

    I mean c'mon Australia, seriously!

    In Germany you can take your dog virtually anywhere and I mean that. Apart from funeral homes and surgery rooms the muts are basically allowed to roam everywhere and anywhere. I even seen a trendy mohawk sporting punk by his staffie a ticket on the tram so he could sit on a seat!

    I heard that in France dogs are allowed to just roam the streets and not like in Thailand or Romania where they actually have no home or family, no. These dogs in France have owners, beds and meals waiting for them. I am not saying let's all open up our back gates like the French do to let our dogs out for midnight walks and to line the streets with their colon corndogs. What I am saying is the Europeans have the idea.

    If the dog is supposed to be a part of the family, then why don't we treat them that way?

    I mean even look at the strict beach rules here. I have been partial to taking a sneaky day off work in the "doggy no-no" season, taken Oskar down the beach with not a single person in sight and had the beach patrol called on me, ridiculous. And again I am not saying to let them run free on the beach all of the time, heck I hate it too when im trying to get stuck into a cold bev and some fish & chips while I have some random mutt sniffing at my crotch and kicking sand up everywhere.

    I have used http://doggo.com.au/ and there is really not much to be honest. Parks, reserves, ovals, more parks, more ovals. I want a good day hike in the wild not some footy oval or playground.

    The point of all this?

    Australia needs to relax it's laws for dogs in parks in my humble opinion. Leashes in fine with, picking up dog durrys im not so fine with but I will usually do if someone is looking (what did you expect?). I know there is good reason for it but I just think that there is a serious lack of good large parks where you can camp and hike in Australia that is accessible to people and the pooches.

    Nuff said, rant done.

  • #2
    It's getting near impossible to free camp without a dog...let alone with one.

    There are alot of animals in this country that are under threat though.......bloody feral cats. I guess we cant risk loosing anymore than we already have.
    I cant even take my dog through a national park in a vehicle to get to private property. Gets frustrating for sure.
    sigpic

    Originally posted by reyzor
    Education is important, but big biceps are more importanter ...
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    • #3
      Agree 100% It's getting near impossible to take dog's anywhere these days.

      It's a small number of irresponsible owners that are ruining it for the rest of us
      "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion" Author Unknown

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      • #4
        I know! I'm from Munich originally. And Australia was a bit of a shock to the system to say the least. It's one of my pet hates so I can join right into this rant I mean I'm not even allowed to take my dog on a bloody bus! I mean come on!! How are pensioners handling this, who may not be able to afford a car?

        Dogs are everywhere in Munich. I mean really everywhere. I had several colleagues who would bring their pooches to work. Our clients loved it and were terribly disappointed when Fido couldn't come along for what reason ever. Dogs in Munich are a part of life and I cannot remember ever anyone complaining about a dog in a pub or a cafe lying quiety under a table snoozing away. The funny thing is I also cannot recall any dog fights. Ever. In over 30 years - not once. I guess if dogs from puppyhood onwards are a part of their family's life and are used to go everywhere with them, they just get used to everything and everyone pretty quickly. BTW there is also still deer in German forests. Somehow it works...
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        • #5
          I guess irresponsible pet owners and whinges ruin it for the rest of us. National parks won't let you take your dog for a walk in case it poos on some leaves but they have no problem throwing 1080 everywhere and poisoning everything. Well maybe not everything just the dingos and any dog that happens to stray a bit too far from home.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by margoo View Post
            I know! I'm from Munich originally.
            Ahh sie sind aus munchen... alles klar! Ich mach nur spas =)

            Totally agree and yes I seen deer off of the main highway going to the north sea in Germany a few years back and considering deer have one of the best senses of smell I think the parks and rangers are making the problem to be something it really is not. A bit like the banana police and customs at the air port actually.

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            • #7
              Yes Im getting to the end of my tether with this country - especially Victoria. No bitework, no Schutzhund, no prong collars, no e collars etc ... and the dog problem is getting worst and worst because we're banning everything that 1) gives most big breeds an outlet and 2) helps up control them. Instead we're happy to condemn dogs to death for acting like dogs and if a fist full of treats doesnt fix it the dog must be bad ... We're backward compared to the rest of the world, and what little dog knowledge we had is slipping fast. Even our genetics is a laugh in some breeds. But we're too far away and closed off to see whats going on. I would happily move to somewhere in Europe. Plus no hot summers lol
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Goindeep
                Here is the thing. The Europeans have it down pat. Not like us, overly politically correct and scared of anything that may cause potential harm to our beautiful flora and fona and hence we BAN dogs from most national and state parks and well... pretty much everywhere else apart from the street!

                What a disgrace!
                Well, the idea is that dogs are an introduced predator that will cause havoc to the ecosystem if everyone brings their dogs to a national park. They think of a dog as running around killing everything in sight. It's a bit ironic though, considering in other parts of the country we've got strip mining and kangaroo extermination, and you have to go far into the bush to escape the piles of garbage people have dumped.

                In theory Australia has a lot more to lose than Europe because we're a closed environment, nothing gets in without being brought here by humans. Maybe they should concentrate on stopping needless development amd wildlife extermination though, instead of stopping nature loving people from camping with their dogs.

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                • #9
                  It's ironic really. They stop us from doing anything with our dogs because they're worried our dogs will cause problems; and yet I would argue and strongly believe that the number 1 cause of dog problems is their owners not doing enough with them...

                  I have taken my dog everywhere with me since he was a baby - he has seen it all. He has come on every holiday, many house parties, road trips, been to the top levels of the Deutsche Bank building in Sydney etc lol and now, at almost 3 years of age, I have a dog that I really can take everywhere with me and not have to worry. Even if it turns out that all he can do is sit next to me lying down for hours, he's fine with that. It makes me so sad. Everyone thinks that Sammy is such a special dog, that he's somehow a bit more human or something than all the others but as much as I love him and think he is my special baby, I know that's not true. Most dogs would be the same if their owners had invested as much time into them as I have into Sammy. He wasn't born knowing 100's of English words and how to read people, how to tell who needs what from him, the difference between playing and genuine threats etc, he learned from spending so much time with them. And yet it has been a fight for me every step of the way and I haven't always played 100% by the rules. But I have 0 regrets, he has never caused a problem or put anyone at risk.

                  I have a list of people wanting a puppy from Sammy now, willing to pay whatever I would ask for them including my vet lol. They think it's him but I doubt that many people in Australia have ever come across a dog that has had as much training and socialisation invested in it as what Sammy has. They think that a puppy from him will be the same and well it might have that potential but like Sammy, it won't be born that way.

                  And banning training programs like Schutzhund - giving your dog an outlet and teaching it to be able to think and obey commands whilst under stressful and exciting situations, well the reasoning behind that decision completely escapes me.

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                  • #10
                    I must say I think picking dog poo up in public places is a good thing. I was in Paris some 25 years ago and some streets were littered with dog poo. It was liking walking across a poo minefield, we all stepped in poo at least once.

                    I agree that there should be more areas of wilderness open to hiking with our dogs. I think that there could be more beaches as well opened to dogs as well.

                    However the baiting programs are unfortunately neccessary if we want to protect the last vestiges of some of our very vulnerable native species, which tend to be more vulnerable to predation than species in other areas of the world because they have not evolved with foxes and cats as predators.

                    Where I live, feral cats and foxes have decimated most of the native species and there are a few strongholds where baiting programs are the last lines of defense for some of these endangered animals like a rare speices of rock wallaby. Wild dogs (crossbred dingos and feral dogs) are an incredible problem where I live and will decimate livestock just for fun.

                    Unfortunately there is a stretch of road through large areas of national park to a popular holiday destination which after xmas is littered with people dumping their xmas puppies along with a bowl of water (pretty sick). The agricultural protection officers told me that they have to lay baits along these areas to prevent the dogs surviving and becoming feral and adding to the already exploding problem.

                    So unfortunately there are many humans that make it bad for everybody else. I have seen areas closed to 4WD vehicles because instead of sticking to the tracks people created their own leading to increasing and uncaring degradation of the environment with dumping of rubbish and so on. It just takes a few to do this and it becomes banned to everyone.

                    I also dont understand the banning of the protection sports like Schutzhund.
                    Last edited by Kalacreek; 07-01-2013, 12:23 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Baiting might be necessary in some areas but where I live there are no feral cats or mongrel wild dogs, we do get foxes but they don't seem to have any interest in the baits they're too busy going after everyone's poultry. The rangers seem to think that feral dogs are killing sheep 3km away even though the sheep are usually being killed on weekends as far as I know dogs can't tell what day it is and I'm pretty sure any reasonable person would stop and think well maybe when the hobby farmers down the road come out on weekends and let there dogs go they end up in the neighbors sheep paddock. But instead they assume there must be feral dogs regardless of the fact that people who have lived here for generations have never seen, heard or dealt with one. Using baits where you are Kalacreek seems perfectly understandable but here it just doesn't make any sense if they actually talked to people to find out what was going on they might be able to come up with a solution that will work.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gem View Post
                        Baiting might be necessary in some areas but where I live there are no feral cats or mongrel wild dogs, we do get foxes but they don't seem to have any interest in the baits they're too busy going after everyone's poultry. The rangers seem to think that feral dogs are killing sheep 3km away even though the sheep are usually being killed on weekends as far as I know dogs can't tell what day it is and I'm pretty sure any reasonable person would stop and think well maybe when the hobby farmers down the road come out on weekends and let there dogs go they end up in the neighbors sheep paddock. But instead they assume there must be feral dogs regardless of the fact that people who have lived here for generations have never seen, heard or dealt with one. Using baits where you are Kalacreek seems perfectly understandable but here it just doesn't make any sense if they actually talked to people to find out what was going on they might be able to come up with a solution that will work.
                        Yes, I can understand what you are saying. Unfortunately east of where I live, many farmers no longer have the option of sheep. Not talking hobby famers or areas where hobby farmers would want to hobby, but 10-20,000 ha operations. The need for full time doggers, baiting and an increase in dog fence construction is all to apparent. Wild dogs are a huge problem and some farmer friends have lost 40% of their flocks to dogs. Most of them have sold their flocks and concentrate on cropping, but it severly limits their enterprise options in these tough times for low rainfall agriculture.

                        I have feral cats in my bush, my dogs have treed them, I cant lay baits because of the dogs so we have to trap them or shoot them and the smell of fox and their weird mating calls are common. We also use hidden cameras triggered when life passes by and they are inevitably cats or foxes which is always dissapointing.

                        Unfortunately with the rise of weekend properties west of me, some people coming out to properties and camping do let their dogs go wild on the weekends, which sometimes ends in chasing sheep, which can be devastating especially to heavily pregnant ewes and young lambs. We got that happening close to where I am for awhile untill the shire rangers really cracked down, which has made life more difficult for responsible owners. So untill most people can behave with their dogs, rules are going to be increased unfortunately. It only takes a few.

                        Baiting is done here only where it is neccessary, nobody likes throwing baits around unless they have to. We have several high conservation areas and unfortunately they are definitely required there. The farms abutting those areas have lost sheepdogs, so it is not done lightly.
                        Last edited by Kalacreek; 07-01-2013, 07:22 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Yes BSL does suck, but it's worse in Germany.

                          Kennel Club anger over Germany's anti-dog laws - Telegraph

                          This news is old but I don't think anything has changed.
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                          • #14
                            Australia has a lot of endemic flora and fauna, that I think everyone should be more grateful for. A minor inconvenience for us, and our dogs, may mean that an endangered species of snake or possum or insect or anything can live to breath another day because a dog hasnt attacked/trampled/eaten the creature or its food source.

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                            • #15
                              Lots of great points here, sincerely.

                              Here is a good link from a government source that tries to answer the question as to why dogs are not allowed in national parks.
                              Parks & Wildlife Service - Dogs and other pets in national parks and reserves

                              Its all just fear based with no real science behind it basically.

                              If you read into it, there is no hard evidence and only theory.

                              I mean if you read that article I just linked to, they basically contradict themselves by saying that A) assistance dogs are allowed and B) that they try to protect from scents and things. Well im pretty sure humans walking, shouting, talking, eating, smoking and relieving themselves in the bush has a similar effect to a dog walking in the bush does it not?

                              And im fairly certain that wild bush fires take out more flora and fauna than any dog ever would or ever will. Its just stupid and its just another dumb rule that has no real scientific basis.

                              Someone mentioned dogs being an introduced species... really? Dogs an introduced species into Australia? If by introduced we mean, dingos over 4 thousand years ago, then yes we can say "introduced" But lets be realistic about it please. Dingos have have been here for between 4 thousand and 10 thousand years, no one really knows.

                              People keep mentioning and referencing stories and experiences from farms. Farms and properties that are used to produce is different from a national park. National parks do not raise cattle and national parks have rangers and other opportunities that farmers dont.

                              I am not saying lets let our dogs to go wild in national parks, but I am saying we need to consider making a smart move in the right direction like for instance having a goal of having one park in each state that is dog friendly and with appropriate rules like off leash safe zones, otherwise the dog is leashed and fines for breaking rules like not picking up after muttley (much to my disgust, lol).
                              Last edited by goindeep; 08-01-2013, 01:56 AM.

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