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  • Information Please!

    Hi, Everybody,

    New to this forum, so thanks in advance for any replies.

    My wife has decided she wants a border collie - poodle cross.

    Can anyone give me some advice about "reputable" breeders (as opposed to puppy mills), and about the temperament of the dogs themselves??

    Experiences and pics most welcome.

    Cheers.

  • #2
    My wife has decided she wants a border collie - poodle cross.
    Why does your wife want this?

    There are no reputable breeders of these, the closest you'd get is some farmer who accidentally let his farm dog get with his house dog.

    And that would mean that no health checks had been done before the mating to ensure that you didn't double up on bad genetics.

    A poodle cross can take after the other dog breed and shed like crazy - so non shedding is not a reason to get a poodle cross. If you get a poodle - it will need clipping on a regular basis ie $80 every 6 weeks or so.

    Border collies and Poodles are both extremely intelligent dogs who will need you to be training them, or they will be training you or destroying everything you hold dear. They will probably be selective ie not the sofa you've always hated but wife's favourite shoes and the remote control.

    This is the RSPCA checklist for a responsible breeder.
    http://kb.rspca.org.au/What-is-a-res...eeder_327.html

    Most cross breeders might get 3 out of 10 items on that list right. They will be registered with their local council as a breeder, they might provide a guarantee - ie you might get your money back if you return the puppy to them inside two weeks but good luck getting your kids to agree to that knowing an unhealthy puppy will get PTS. They might provide testimonials from puppy buyers who don't know what it's like to get a well trained and socialised healthy puppy from a breeder.

    As soon as you're dealing with a cross breed puppy - you cannot believe anything said about the parentage unless you meet the parent dogs. And it's possible that more than one dog can be a father in a litter. It's a really good idea to meet one or both parent dogs. The puppies should stay with their litter until at least 8 weeks old - for good dog manners learning - which you have to continue when you get home. Puppies taken away from their litter at 6 weeks, bite a lot and hard because they never learn any different on their own.

    Puppies should be wormed, vaccinated (at least the first injection - might require boosters), micro chipped, and come with an information pack for the buyer. If you get a pedigree puppy you should be able to see copies of the pedigrees (ancestries) of the parent dogs along with copies of information on hip scores and other genetic diseases that might overlap. And the puppy should be registered and you get copies of the papers and the cost of the papers should not be more than $30 ish.

    http://kb.rspca.org.au/How-do-I-avoi...farms_325.html

    If you don't mind a mutt of uncertain herigate - petrescue.com.au is a good place to look. Most dogs on there are with foster carers, and they can tell you what the personality of the dog is like and whether it sheds a lot.

    border collie cross:

    https://www.petrescue.com.au/listings/430837
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    • #3
      As the owners of working border collies I hate to see the breed used like this, it is just not right as far as I am concerned. The temperament could be anything. Border collies can be highly strung and a little snappy in some lines, they generally have a lot of energy and are what I call a high maintenance breed. They can also shed like crazy especially if long coated and crossing with a poodle could result in a very hard to manage coat especially if it from a long haired showbred dog

      Border collies can come from pedigree show lines or they can come from working lines, they can be long coat or short coat. Most breeders of working and showline Border collies would not like to see that cross and personally I can see no reason for it.

      Why not get your self a nicely bred poodle where the parents temperaments are known and all the genetic screening has been done. I don't believe you will find an ethical breeder of that cross. Collies and poodles can both suffer from hip dysplasia and various genetic eye defects.

      If you have no idea what the temperament of that cross is likely to be why does your wife want it? Generally when choosing a dog breed you need to understand why you want a particular breed or cross. How can otherwise know if it will suit your lifestyle?

      This cross will be a roll of the dice you could end up with anything. Best to see if you can find a dog in rescue from that crossing at least you will see what you are getting. Hopefully this type of cross isn't becoming the new fashion.
      Last edited by Kalacreek; 28-02-2016, 08:10 PM.

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      • #4
        Ps

        This page has a list of alternatives to poodle crosses

        http://pantonepoodles.com/doodles.htm

        The most like a border collie poodle x on that page is the lagotto romaglo but it's nothing like either in temperament. the ones I've met can be a little bit dog aggressive (hate other dogs so they're no fun to let off lead at the park).
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        • #5
          It sounds like a poodle from a decent breeder would be a far better alternative, that is a potentially diabolical cross. Good on you for making enquiries and averting a disaster.

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          • #6
            There is no way to predict what a X breed will turn out like. I've seen Lab X Poodles who look like wire haired Labs and I've seen ones who just about look like purebred Poodles!

            A Poodle would be a good option. They need regular grooming, but it's very likely a BC X Poodle would as well. You don't have to give them a fancy haircut though. Poodles can have any haircut you want. If you like them looking shaggy and scruffy that is fine as long as they're maintained

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            • #7
              My mother rescued a retriever poodle cross and the coat was an absolute nightmare. The coat had to be clipped but it was very difficult to groom as it tangled so easily and formed matts if not attended to daily.

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              • #8
                I find many dogs that are Poodle X anything with an undercoat tend to have a horrible coat to maintain! They have a thick undercoat at the base (so yes they shed) but their coat is also thick curls or waves everywhere else and it grows endlessly. I often have to first strip out the coat of these dogs before I can get clippers through because it is just way too thick!! Dogs like that really need to be kept clipped short all the time.

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                • #9
                  Many thanks to all who responded to my plea for help.

                  Your views have caused a major rethink and have pushed back the decision considerably.

                  Again, many thanks.

                  Whew!! missed that one!!

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                  • #10
                    Hi Biggles6541

                    Glad we helped.

                    There's always pet rescue or workingdogrescue for bitsa farm dogs (BC x)

                    If we knew why your wife wants one of these - we might be able to recommend something that might be similar or worth investigating.
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                    • #11
                      Well, when she was a girl, my wife's family had a BCx? from her uncle's farm near Whyalla. Apparently, they were lucky and got a beautiful house dog that lived for 18 yrs. So she has a fondness for BCs. She thought the BCxP would be a nice combination and she loved the look of them.

                      I think it's back to the drawing board. It's compounded by the fact that we live in a townhouse and our back garden is about the size of your dinner table. In Adelaide, you have to pick up after your dog - and picking up warm dog poo on my morning walk before breakfast isn't on my list of wonderful things to do.

                      If we get a larger home with a reasonably sized garden, then I shall reconsider the practicalities of dog owning.

                      Again, thanks for your feedback.

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                      • #12
                        My first BC before I had working collies was a showbred dog and she has a beautiful laid back nature but she still needed plenty of exercise. I don't think that type of dog would be suited to townhouse type living. We had a poodle once as well and she was a ball of energy and needed lots of wearing out. Even with a good size garden walking twice a day will be on the cards for those high energy breeds.

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                        • #13
                          Having a dog is a bit like having a child. No matter what they look like, they'll grow on you and you will think they are beautiful. I know what I'm talking about because my dog really is rather ugly. Haha!

                          But selecting for temperament is really important, especially if there's restrictions like a small backyard or limited time to exercise, etc. Even though of course most dogs have naughty streaks and we also still love them regardless. But you have to be able to meet their needs.

                          I got myself a rescue dog because I didn't want to buy a purebred (I wasn't looking for predictability or a certain look) and liked the idea of the carer having 'tested' the dog so I could get lots of information about her before I made a decision. (The reality was somewhat different, but that's a story for another time and it worked out very well.)

                          I live in a house with a very small backyard and currently foster a young kelpie x. Surprisingly, she is the most chilled working dog I've ever met, so that worked out very well. Just to demonstrate that you never know what you get when breeds are crossed.

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                          • #14
                            Meanwhile guys, i got some nice links, to if this pup falls through, im going to feel pretty jaded with the dog world. ONCE a Fxxkxxg gain. And will seek what i need from a pound/rescue. I had seriously never considered $80 a pop for clipping? sod that! Ive done a U turn on considering the breed You'd have to be a groomer surely.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bernie View Post
                              Meanwhile guys, i got some nice links, to if this pup falls through, im going to feel pretty jaded with the dog world. ONCE a Fxxkxxg gain. And will seek what i need from a pound/rescue. I had seriously never considered $80 a pop for clipping? sod that! Ive done a U turn on considering the breed You'd have to be a groomer surely.
                              I wouldn't be getting a Standard Poodle if I wasn't a groomer. No way I would want to spend $80 to $100 every 6 weeks for grooming! Grooming isn't that hard to do though if you've got a pair of clippers. I started clipping dogs when I was about 10 years old... Just taught myself, granted they looked like crap, but hey, it worked out okay and the dogs were happy!

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