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  • #16
    Originally posted by Hyacinth View Post
    From the pdf then - since dogman won't say what "A" means.



    Which doesn't make sense to me. But "A" suddenly doesn't look so great.

    It does seem to be a completely independent scoring system so the numbers are not equivalent to the usual vet xray scores (eg for labs, golden retreivers, GSPs etc) or the Pennhip system.
    The meaning of the letter "A" is a secret and is only known by a handful of Tibetan Monks...but for a small fee you will be told...the only problem is you'll have to travel to Tibet...hope this clears it up.
    sigpic Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

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    • #17
      I deserved that dogman - and I laughed...

      What I didn't get was A is related to a score of not more than 8 in the hip - but at the same time the score must be not more than 3 in any part of the body. Confused.

      Still don't know what a good rating is based on the GSD club system. Ie if a dog has ? rating - it's worth considering for buying in terms of structural? soundness.
      sigpic

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      • #18
        If we have to work out orthopedics using a GSD hip rating scale, GOD HELP US! is all i can say. As we can see what a GSD breeder thinks is correct, i assume you should really be looking for a Z!

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        • #19
          Thanks to all for the valuable inputs.

          Nekhbet, I am planning to take my puppy for training sessions once she is in my care and not treat the pup as a couch companion, though primarily it will be family dog. I do not believe in participating in showing dogs so that is definitely out.

          Currently I have registered my interest with 2 GSD kennels, Vanharley Kennels and ShaeferHund Kennels. They were the only ones with a litter planned that I could see from the GSD Club website and some cold calling.

          The parents with Vanharley kennels are Xeno Vom Arjakjo, kKl1a,IPO1,A/ED,NORM[IMP,GMY] and Vanharley Kalender Girl 'A' 'Z' B.S. CL I - EXCELLENT Graded. Though the grading numbers are not indicated the Debbie indicated that the scores for hip is 0-2 and 2-2. She also indicated that if the scrore goes above 4, she does not breed that particular sire/dame.

          With ShaeferHund, they told me last week that the girl had a discharge and they would notify me if the litter is still expected.

          Thanks for your suggestions and I will get in touch with Von Forrel to see if they can match me to a puppy.

          Again thanks to all especially Dogman, Hyacinth and Bernie.


          Originally posted by Nekhbet View Post
          PennHip is becoming preferred as 3 vets give an opinion and then the score is tallied. The dog is positioned differently and it measures maximal passive hip laxity, the lower the number to 0 the 'tighter' the hips are.
          The traditional system everyone is used to is 1 point for every 'fault' of the hip or elbow joint and was done by 1 accredited veterinarian... and it's just one vets opinion. An uneven score (eg 2:6) or a total higher then 4 to me is a massive no no whatever breed you look at. It is done by stretching the dogs hips out and the vet reading the resulting radiograph BUT positioning has always been a massive problem with this method.

          As to the original poster, what experience do you have with dogs. Personally if you are looking in to a well structured working line dog and you have little intention to go take it to training then find a different breed. Pet or not they're not a breed to just leave to their own devices.

          Start with these two breeders

          Von Forell Australia
          Satzkom German Shepherds and Rottweilers | Pet services | Australia | AussieNic.net

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          • #20
            Thanks to all (Dogman, Hyacinth, Bernie and Nekhbet ) for their replies.

            At the moment I have short listed 2 kennels, ShaeferHund and Vanharley Kennels. The shaeferhund bitch had a discharge last week so not sure if the litter is still going to be produced. The Vanharley litter is expected early August and both parents have got hip scores less than 2 in each hip. Elbows are Z (0,0) and DM clear on shire.

            Vanharley Kalender Girl 'A' 'Z' B.S. CL I - EXCELLENT Graded

            Xeno Vom Arjakjo, kKl1a,IPO1,A/ED,NORM[IMP,GMY]

            Nekhbet I have registered by interest with Von Forrel, will keep you updated.

            Originally posted by Nekhbet View Post
            PennHip is becoming preferred as 3 vets give an opinion and then the score is tallied. The dog is positioned differently and it measures maximal passive hip laxity, the lower the number to 0 the 'tighter' the hips are.
            The traditional system everyone is used to is 1 point for every 'fault' of the hip or elbow joint and was done by 1 accredited veterinarian... and it's just one vets opinion. An uneven score (eg 2:6) or a total higher then 4 to me is a massive no no whatever breed you look at. It is done by stretching the dogs hips out and the vet reading the resulting radiograph BUT positioning has always been a massive problem with this method.

            As to the original poster, what experience do you have with dogs. Personally if you are looking in to a well structured working line dog and you have little intention to go take it to training then find a different breed. Pet or not they're not a breed to just leave to their own devices.

            Start with these two breeders

            Von Forell Australia
            Satzkom German Shepherds and Rottweilers | Pet services | Australia | AussieNic.net

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            • #21
              Hi JinuG

              Have you been out to meet any of these dogs and their owners - doing this will definitely give you an idea of how demanding these dogs can be (it can vary even within a litter) and whether they will suit your family.

              The one with an IPO - means it has done some "obedience" competition and done ok at it (or better).
              I'm not sure in this context if AD is Agility Dog (based the basic level of agility - which isn't super easy because it has weave poles and contacts and all off lead)
              and KKL or koerklasse is an all round rating system for GSD structure and training combined that if "passed" means (in Germany) suitable for breeding. I don't know what the 1a modifier means - I think they may have changed the ratings given.

              A dog that can do all that - is very clever and likes to learn new things - so if you're not training it - you can bet it's training you

              Good luck with your quest and do keep us updated.
              sigpic

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              • #22
                Hi,

                Not yet, I will soon. We as a family are also closely considering the demands this will make on the family. As any dog we get will become a family member, we do not want to take any unthoughtful steps which will not suit all.

                I will keep you posted on the progress of our selection and again thanks to all for the valuable inputs.

                Regards,
                Jinu

                Originally posted by Hyacinth View Post
                Hi JinuG

                Have you been out to meet any of these dogs and their owners - doing this will definitely give you an idea of how demanding these dogs can be (it can vary even within a litter) and whether they will suit your family.

                The one with an IPO - means it has done some "obedience" competition and done ok at it (or better).
                I'm not sure in this context if AD is Agility Dog (based the basic level of agility - which isn't super easy because it has weave poles and contacts and all off lead)
                and KKL or koerklasse is an all round rating system for GSD structure and training combined that if "passed" means (in Germany) suitable for breeding. I don't know what the 1a modifier means - I think they may have changed the ratings given.

                A dog that can do all that - is very clever and likes to learn new things - so if you're not training it - you can bet it's training you

                Good luck with your quest and do keep us updated.

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                • #23
                  Has anybody come across Jan Youngmann from Satyr Kennels? I am looking at purchasing a puppy through her however the communication has only been via email and there is no facebook or webpage. The breeder is registered but to what appears to be her mothers name. Does this sound legit to anyone?

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