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Thread: Wanted to Buy - Boston Terrier, Qld.

  1. #21
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    [QUOTE=Crested_Love;130149]Agreed, health should be first and foremost. However conformation should be just as high a priority.
    When you aren't breeding for the show ring and aren't showing your dogs how do you know your dogs are up to standard?
    It's all very well good to read a breed standard but everyone interprets it differently.
    We will agree to disagree there, in fact the history of dog breeding/showing suggests unscrupulous breeders may be more willing to use unethical breeding practices which ultimately may severely compromise the genetic health of the dog,and any further offspring, but increases the chances of producing a "champion" much sooner. As bulldog lover mentioned before, the genetic health of many breeds have not been treated very kindly in the past.
    I am certainly not suggesting all breeders are unscrupulous, but the end product we see today in many breeds, is certainly a product of "looks/show over health.

  2. #22
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    I think also with the "Show" industry "Standard" varies from person to person. Reasons why one dog can come first today and last tomorrow.
    Rubylisious


  3. #23
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    Very true bulldog. My personel opinion is the kennel club associations should have put far more emphasis on health issues related to the dogs in show, rather than the "look" a VERY LONG time ago. Because really in the end, if you purchace a dog, would you prefer it's tail look and size is exactly to standard, or that it has the exact breed standard marking with not a cm of white in the wrong place, or would you prefer your dog is healthy and lives a very long life free of often genetic disorders? Such exact breed standards to attain prestige and titles, often leads to bad breeding practices. After all, all our breeds were once cross breeds.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavalierqld View Post
    My original post was due to fact that I do not know of any ethical Boston terrier breeders. My friend and her family have been searching for almost 2 years to find a pup.She has been treated very rudely by the very few she has found. I did not state she was looking for an unregistered breeder, just one who has the health of the puppies as number one priority.
    Although I understand your point, there are breeders who show who have health as an equal priority to conformation.

    Bostons are not in huge supply as you have found out. I wasn't aware of the caesar issue though?? In fact, I am inclined to dispute that is the reason for the higher cost (or did I read th epost wrongly?). Bostons have small heads, not large. Their heads are in proportion with their bodies.

    I would tink the higher cost is the demand. Supply and demand is the biggest factor in the cost of anything.
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  5. #25
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    Why one dog comes first today and last tomorrow is a little more complex. So is the standard. Most standards also come with an extended version and this is the version that is important to me.

    Consistency in the show ring is what you are after.

    Yes judging is subjective however there are breed specialist judges and winning under those is what we strive for. For our specialties (Whippet only) we get in international judges who are Whippet specialists. To win under these judges is what we are striving for.

    As for all breeds judges they try to look at the overall quality of the dog, but of course need to narrow things down to come to an eventual winner so some may place a dog first because of it's overall shape (important in a Whippet) or others may place more importance on it's daisy cutting side gait (also important in a Whippet).

    I could bury my head in the sand and believe I have the best dogs, yep I think they are pretty damn good but could another dog other than my own be a better match for one of my bitches, if it wasn't for the show ring I'd be going well to find that out.

    Also not all breeders are obsessed with colour or perfect markings, in my breed colour is of little importance. But the public, not show people would like to change that, it was the same when I was in Kelpies. Every week I get calls asking if I have any solid coloured Whippets or blue Whippets, same when I was in Kelpies. Constantly myself and other breeders tell people we don't breed for colour as any colour is acceptable, we are breeding for a healthy sound puppy who also fits the standard. The fact that the show ring is full of parti brindle Whippets, the least desirable colour sought by pet owners is proof that not all breeds have been ruined.
    Last edited by MAC; 07-12-2011 at 03:32 PM.

  6. #26

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    I could bury my head in the sand and believe I have the best dogs, yep I think they are pretty damn good but could another dog other than my own be a better match for one of my bitches, if it wasn't for the show ring I'd be going well to find that out.
    This is exactly my point. You might have a dog and a bitch that you think are the best things since sliced bread, but without getting out there and seeing other dogs of your breed at shows, and putting yours out there against them, how do you know for sure?

    BL, yes people can read the standard, but as I said everyone interprets it differently, and some people interpret it wrong, how are you going to know you are wrong without actually going out there are coming last in your class every week?
    MAC brings up a good point with the extended standards as well, most people google the breed standard for dogs, but there is actually pages and pages more information about each breed in the extended version.

    I am certainly not suggesting all breeders are unscrupulous, but the end product we see today in many breeds, is certainly a product of "looks/show over health.
    How would you go about showing a dog with slipping patellas or hip displaysia might I ask?
    A lot of health problems you physically cannot show the dog so it really is in the breeders best interests to breed healthy dogs.
    I agree, not all show breeders are ethical, there's no denying that, but these days health testing becomes a selling point for dogs and more breeders are waking up to the fact it is necessary.
    When I was looking for a breeder I trawled through website after website looking at different kennels, my short list was all the ones who did health testing, then I narrowed it down on the consistency of their conformation from there.
    In the end I ended up with a multi best in group winning dog with no health problems whatsoever.

  7. #27
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    Hello Anne, As I said in my post, not all breeders are unscruplous, but I firmly belive you have more chance of purchasing a healthy pup from a non show home than one that shows.
    You may be right about the "non" availablility of Boston Terriers being the reason for the high price. That was just an assumption I came to after researching a little bit about them on the net. I did read they have a higher rate of caesar, due to a problem with the skull and thought that may be the reason. But yes, supply and demand will do that. Another reason I assumed that was because, as I found, they are so hard to come by, the caesar issue may stop some breeders breeding them? It would be great if a boston breeder could clear this up for us, would be interesting to know WHY they are so few? They are certainly beautiful little dogs with a lovely temperment.

  8. #28
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    Mac, >>> (sorry, not sure how to use the quote button) I could bury my head in the sand and believe I have the best dogs, yep I think they are pretty damn good but could another dog other than my own be a better match for one of my bitches, if it wasn't for the show ring I'd be going well to find that out.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    Its great you enjoy showing, your post makes it sounds more like a sport than a breeding program..its just not for everyone, nor should it be, and I dont belive the canine clubs ultimatley have the dogs best interests at heart, so I choose not to support that, just a personal choice.

  9. #29
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    Crested <<<<<< BL, yes people can read the standard, but as I said everyone interprets it differently, and some people interpret it wrong, how are you going to know you are wrong without actually going out there are coming last in your class every week?
    MAC brings up a good point with the extended standards as well, most people google the breed standard for dogs, but there is actually pages and pages more information about each breed in the extended version. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    That is my point crested, While I do breed to standard, I am not interested in breed standards and dog show champions. Through my own knowledge, and visits to dog shows occasionally, I know our cavies are every bit as good, because I take great care with their breeding, but even if they wouldnt win a champion title and were not exactly perfect in appearance, my for most priority is health and always will be, and I am very proud of that.
    Again, sorry for the bad quote thingy :-)

    >>>>How would you go about showing a dog with slipping patellas or hip displaysia might I ask?
    A lot of health problems you physically cannot show the dog so it really is in the breeders best interests to breed healthy dogs.
    I agree, not all show breeders are ethical, there's no denying that, but these days health testing becomes a selling point for dogs and more breeders are waking up to the fact it is necessary.
    When I was looking for a breeder I trawled through website after website looking at different kennels, my short list was all the ones who did health testing, then I narrowed it down on the consistency of their conformation from there.
    In the end I ended up with a multi best in group winning dog with no health problems whatsoever. <<<

    Crested..I am very sure you are aware of the myriad of genetic disorders..some VERY serious that are not visually apparant? Do the show fraternity require hard copy,up to date extensive health checks on for dogs participating in shows these days?
    Please dont assume these points I have raised pertain to all breeders, I am certainly not doing that, just pointing out that there are other ways of successfully breeding healthy, breed standard puppies. Not everyone agrees with shows and not all buyers want to show a pup they purchase. And your comment regarding, most breeders having health checks, well I really hope that is happening more and more, but what I do see, and it is very evident in the posts here on this site is some posters urging people to buy from "registered" breeders only. While this is of course true, not many buyers of breeders "pet" puppies actually ask for evidence of extensive health checks, not only on the dam and sire, but grandies as well. I really believe whether its a purebred or crossbred, this information is imperative. It is not just good enough to praise the "registered" community, giving a false sense of security, and not address health!Unethical "registered - unethical BYB = the same, no difference.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by cavalierqld View Post
    Hello Anne, As I said in my post, not all breeders are unscruplous, but I firmly belive you have more chance of purchasing a healthy pup from a non show home than one that shows.
    You may be right about the "non" availablility of Boston Terriers being the reason for the high price. That was just an assumption I came to after researching a little bit about them on the net. I did read they have a higher rate of caesar, due to a problem with the skull and thought that may be the reason. But yes, supply and demand will do that. Another reason I assumed that was because, as I found, they are so hard to come by, the caesar issue may stop some breeders breeding them? It would be great if a boston breeder could clear this up for us, would be interesting to know WHY they are so few? They are certainly beautiful little dogs with a lovely temperment.
    Most Brachy breeds have a high caesar rate.

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