Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 41

Thread: Pugalier

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,561

    Default

    In answer to your question, no, I don't know of anyone who breeds Pugs crossed with CKCSs in Adelaide.

    Is there any reason in particular that you have decided upon a Pug x CKCS? What are the attributes that you are hoping to get with such a dog?
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,561

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tkay View Post
    Why is this site not just called Australian Dog Forum?
    I wish it was. I am always torn between remaining as a member and giving this site the flick. Not so much because of the name though, I love all dogs pure or cross, but just that people are encouraged to look for dds and also advertise the dogs they don't want anymore here.
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sunshine Coast, Qld
    Posts
    909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhound View Post
    This was the original question.

    An easier way of finding an answer would be to simply google the word. I've just done it and it brings up lots of Puppy Farmers, BYB's and pet shops who provide this cross along with many others.

    My post pointed out that there is no guarantee of the size or physical appearance of any first cross. My reply was based on personal experience of an accidental mating between the two breeds. I felt I offered sound, sensible advice.

    True, it is none of our business what breed or crossbreed an individual wishes to own. However if that individual comes to a forum and makes their choice public they should be prepared to accept the opinions of others without throwing a hissy fit.
    I don't think there was anything wrong with your comment. It was informative without being judgemental. I think it was some of the others that we're a bit confrontational.
    The best things in life, aren't things

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sunshine Coast, Qld
    Posts
    909

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    I dont think anyone is trying to upset you, they are offering valuable advice and experience

    I understand this all seems quite foreign as "designer crossbreeds" are so heavily promoted...

    There are fundamental issues attached to designer cross breeds. They are most often "Farmed" like livestock which is sickening. They are poorly bred as byb and farmers cut corners to maximise their profits.
    They are renound for genetic and behavioural issues due to lack of socialisation and hideous living conditions. You dont know what your getting, puppies can be completely different from their parents in size and look. (We have seen that 100 times on this forum)
    More importantly by buying a designer dog you are supporting an industry that keeps the mothers of these puppies caged for their entire life and bred to death.

    When they can no longer reproduce they dump them in a pound if they are lucky. Many are hit over the head.

    Google puppy farming...

    I find the "I want" attitude appauling. Put your own wants aside for five minutes and educate yourself on the over supply of companion animlas in this country. Over 600,000 healthy rehomeable pets die in this counrty every year! I work with them every day, and it is nothing short of an epidemic.
    I am really not trying to be awkward just wondering. Are you saying no-one should buy a new puppy pure bred or not? A lot of people 'want' a purebred puppy.
    The best things in life, aren't things

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Hawkesbury NSW
    Posts
    514

    Default

    Hi there,

    No, I am not saying that at all. I believe registered breeders and rescue dogs are the most responsible way to go when thinking of a new family member.

    I think the advice given was reasonable by others, I personally found the "I dont want..." line offensive by the op.

    You are probably right, she will go and get exactly what she wants from a petshop as she had no intention of listening to another view.

    I too am sick and tired of seeing dogs advertised here people no longer want. I am also sick and tired people asking how to breed their dogs, or trying to find another dog they can use to mate with.

    I dont come here very often anymore as i find it terribly frustrating.

    The issue of unwanted companion animals is nothing short of an epidemic in this counrty. And while they continue to have their precious lives snuffed out people like the op choose to knowingly support a breeding industry that is inhumane and greatly contributing to the problem.

    I see these dogs dragged while they are sitting on their bums into the euth room. They are healthy, happy, rehomable pets, it makes me sick.

    I have probably just had enough which is probably seen in my posts and my time is better spent doing other things.

    Nic

    "There is enough love and concern for animals in every community to overcome the irresposibility of the few"
    Nathan Winograd.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Hawkesbury NSW
    Posts
    514

    Default

    I wonder what you want after you join here & then add in the space of five minutes add that you want a designer crossbreed puppy on this forum?

    Who are knowingly farmed and bred in hideous conditions and bred only for profit.

    All of those who support this practise regardless of the breed and how selfish you are put your hands up!

    "There is enough love and concern for animals in every community to overcome the irresposibility of the few"
    Nathan Winograd.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Hi
    The reason I posted my question on here was because I couldn't find any information just by googling it. I would like to find somewhere local, but don't want to just go to a pet shop. I probably should have elaborated a bit in my OP, as I guess it was a bit of an open invitation hey!

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    You are probably right, she will go and get exactly what she wants from a petshop as she had no intention of listening to another view.
    Of course I will listen to another view. I just didn't ask for it, and was a bit taken aback by the response I got to such a straightforward question.

    In the process of deciding which breed/crossbreed would be best for my family, I've read some things like the following:

    Burke's Backyard > Fact Sheets > Pugaliers

    ...but we're still deciding. Neither myself or my DH has ever had a dog before, and we have 2 children aged 4 and 6. We understand the responsibility involved in caring for a dog, and don't want to take pot luck or just get something on a whim!!

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,561

    Default

    I can honestly say that in my personal experience of rescuing Pugs and Pug crosses, I would steer clear of a Pug x Cav if you are looking for a dog that has simialr characteristics to a Pug - because they simply don't.

    They are hyperactive more often than not, still have genetic health issues.

    The fact sheet states (I will answer from the Pug perspective only):
    The whole point of this particular cross breed is to produce a healthier, more robust dog. So does it work? Breeders say that less wrinkles are evident, reducing the likelihood of skin problems which can be associated with the skin folds.
    Yes, it reduces the likelihood. However, what is the likelihood anyway? It is very low in the Pug. The face wrinkles do not cause any problems unless they are excessive. Excessive rolls are not a big issue in Pugs.

    In most, though not all offspring, snouts have become more elongated; minimising breathing problems and permitting the dog to exercise more freely and reducing concerns of overheating. However, plenty of water and shade is always advised.
    Both the Pug and the Cavvy are brachycephalic breeds. Both breeds are prone to elongated palates due to their cranial structure as are many other breeds. A longer nose does not ensure that the palate will not be elongated simply byt the fact that the palate is prone to elngation because a canine snout is meant to be the size of a kelpie (for example - and that is width to length in a ratio).

    Therefore ANY dog that is undersized or has a flat face has the propensity to have an elongated palate (and other brachycephalic features) that will inhibit breathing capacity.

    The fact that they still advise "plenty of water and shade" in their notes is also indication that the cross still has breathing issues and cooling issues. (Very quickly - dogs cool themselves by panting, if a dog can not aduately pant and push air through the airways it can not cool itself effectively and so any issues with breathing are issues for cooling).

    Eyes still appear to protrude with the more extreme cross breeds, so eye problems may still occur however ongoing breeding programs may be able to reduce this problem over time.
    Enough said. Although, to be truthful while there is a problem with prolapsed eyes in brachy breeds, this is not hugely common. The most common eye issues are dry eye and lashes/fur rubbing the cornea.

    Cavalier's are prone to suffer slipping knee caps, congenital eye defects and heart problems.
    I have to break this next bit up into sections to answer it. They are correct with this. Pugs also have slipping knee caps and congential eye defects. Therfore, you are increasing the likelihood of the pups having these defects unless the parents are gentically free of defects. In which case, it means that you can buy a pure Cavvy or pure Pug using the same guidelines.

    The use of disease-free breeding stock and the benefits of hybrid vigour
    This now blows the argument clear out of the water. The use of 'disease free' breeding stock when breeding purbred Pugs and or Cavvies will also produce healthy pups.

    While hybrid vigour does have some merit, it is not a magic wand. If the parent dogs have inheritable health defects, the puppies will also carry the gene and develop the disease.

    The bad genes do not 'run away' when they are crossed with another breed. Rather, hybrid vigour occurs in a way that when outcrossing is done, there is less chance of both parents carrying the same defective genes. ie Cavvy mum might have bad heart gene, and another cavvy dad might too cause it is probable in odds when looking at Cavvies...but Pugs don't carry this gene and so there is less chance of the offspring having it. This is a very, very simple explanation but it suffices for this purpose.

    - the process of reducing heritable defects common to purebreds through crossbreeding, should account for a decline in the incidence of these conditions in Pugaliers. Breeders expect this designer dog to have a lifespan similar to the parent breeds, about 10-12 years.

    I am not aware of any group of breeders that are trying to 'create' a breed called the Pugalier. To create a breed they would need to record pedigrees, keep records and then eventually get to a situation where the offspring have both parents as Pugaliers.

    To date, all that happens is that someone crosses a Pug with a Cavvie. I will guarantee that the owners of the said Pug and Cavvy will not even know what genes the parents carry. I will go furhter to say that I'll bet they never do any genetic health tests to determine what genes the puppies might end up with.
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  9. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mitte View Post
    To be honest, I have often wondered that myself given the reception I have seen some receive over a genuine question from new members refering to Crossbreed dogs.. Some answers can be confronting straight off, thus giving the wrong impression to those who came for advice...
    I dont blame anyone though, as many here are very passionate with their beleifs, and that is a good thing.. Just the answers need a bit more thought.
    I myself would never go and buy a Crossbreed. Only a Purebreed would be worth the money paid with the knowledge of his/her history etc..
    That's not to say I would'nt have a Crossbreed as a pet. They are no less loving or loyal to their owners.

    I dont wish to offend, but I just thought I needed to put this out there for comment..

    Cheers, Peter
    I don't think there is a bias against crosbreeds at all on here. I think it is a welfare issue that many on here feel very passionate about.

    I know that many people go into buying a puppy blind to the nightmares of puppy farms, the disasters of designer cross breds and the potential trauma and cost that people suffer. Puppy farmers are business people, they are good at duping customers into thinking they are doing the right thing - that's why they keep doing what they're doing.

    But in this age of communication and information availability I think the "I didn't know" thing wears very thin after you hear it again, and again, and again. And folks like Billy are left picking up the pieces and shedding tears for the too many dogs that get left behind when people cut their losses and move on to something easier.



    Edit to add I have just looked at the Burke Backyard factsheet and I am appalled. Genuinely disgusted.

    "Another plus is the fact that those producing designer dogs select the purebred parents on the basis of soundness and reproductive suitability"

    MY ARSE!

    I can't even express my disgust of the "science" they are spouting here, I'm lost for words. How can anyone believe this?? And how can it be published with no regard for any factuality or concern for welfare and health???
    Last edited by Nattylou; 09-13-2009 at 08:50 PM.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nattylou View Post
    Edit to add I have just looked at the Burke Backyard factsheet and I am appalled. Genuinely disgusted.

    "Another plus is the fact that those producing designer dogs select the purebred parents on the basis of soundness and reproductive suitability"

    MY ARSE!

    I can't even express my disgust of the "science" they are spouting here, I'm lost for words. How can anyone believe this?? And how can it be published with no regard for any factuality or concern for welfare and health???
    I agree ^^^

    See, this is the information that's on TV being promoted by "well reguarded" ppl hence why the average joe blow thinks...'wow, what a great dog... says so...it's on tv, so these designer dogs must be the GO'.

    There's no point blaming a person for seeing these designer dogs as the perfect pet...it's those that advertise and promote them that need to be told off. The average joe has noo idea about puppy mills and BYB...I had no idea either untill I got the internet and joined forums.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •