Thats the fellas for ya, ...i didnt even notice the similar ID, just thought he was using yours
The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
I was in a rush - and didnt anticipate posting overly frequently, since most of the time it would be a little like bel and I talking to each other via a PC while in the same room.. but who knows?
Hyacinth or any other relevant mod can feel free to change it in the back end if they want to be bothered.
Morgan might be able to change it. I can't. You might be able to change the bit that says "junior member" under your user id somewhere in your profile settings. I could change mine until I got made mod. I can't change anyone else's That would be helpful - if one says Belinda and the other says Andrew or something like that.
I could change your signature...but so can you.
Dogs like this become management, not rehabilitation. She didnt rip out a nail, she has obvious massive temperament faults.
When you first got her, dont grab a dog that is wanting to bite you - you fulfilled her expectations in a confrontation and carried it through. She pissed and shat which I would expect a little one to do under these circumstances but be careful, they learn to up the ante and shred your hands when put under what they feel is pressure.
When you train up a dog like this you have to water down your expectations. 99% of owners are not like you, and the ones that are are full to the brim. Blow this dog up to the size of a rottweiler, german shepherd or dobermann. If one of those went to grab you or tear down your back door barking and carrying on would you then go on to rehome it? No. Rescue is also about liability - you put your hand on your heart and tell the next owner the dog is safe to go into society. Do you see this dog with the average joe blow being safe off lead, with kids visiting, making a movement that frightens her or has to handle her in an emergency and she nails them (and trust me I have a couple of scars from a 3kg dog, those little ones are like hurricanes when they want to be)
I'm also surprised a dog that has bitten and call 'fearful' you allow off lead at all ... it's not controllable and you know fear reactions produce unpredictability. Dogs like this need strict routine, clear boundaries and to basically be led everywhere by you in a reprogramming effort in order to build in some safe guards to make them think twice about biting. You cannot stop them, but you can make them second guess exhibiting the behavior and move onto one you have trained in that place. It's a long process, and personally I would never guarentee a dog like this wont regress especially after moving to a new home.
While I agree to some extend, I am in the driver's seat and see the changes she has made. She has been off lead in enclosed areas, like in the video. The only other dog in the video was one of our dogs at the park. There were no risks. Since we got her, she has not tried to bite anyone else, even when afraid. She has growled at other dogs, but this has been a warning and we address it if we feel she will escalate, which most of the time we don't feel she will (and she doesn't). I'm not saying she will be perfect, but she can be rehomed with an experienced dog owner.
I don't quite know what you mean by "she didn't rip out a nail". I have not heard this expression before.
When Muffy finds a new home (and she will), I will put my hand on my heart and say "You need to keep up her training and watch her around other dogs and kids, but she will be a great little dog if you put in the time and effort", etc. If someone wants her and is willing to put in the effort then why shouldn't she go to another home. Noone ever said she would be perfect and go live with an old lady with frequently visiting grandchildren. We still have to assess her around children (safely of course), as we wouldn't allow her to leave without seeing her reaction to them.
I must also state (as I did before) that we did not fulfill her expectations about "biting" her. She was not fearful after the event and became calm within 30-40 second of being reprimanded while holding her in one place. If we had fulfilled her expectations, she would've feared Andrew afterwards, which she did not.
Muffy is on lead when around other people until we assess the situation and most of the time her lead remains on her while she has a plod around. If we feel that the situation may get too much for her then we grab her lead and take charge. She has a GREAT recall, even when she is anxious.
When she goes to her new home, the new owners will have several sessions with us and/or the rescue group's behaviourist to learn how to work with Muffy to ensure she remains the same in the new environment. We have thought of all these things.
If, in several week's time, we don't feel she is suitable for the average Joe, then we will say so to the rescue group. We will not send her on her way without believeing 100% she will be fine.
I rooley trooley wasn't going to comment on this thread as I found it rather alarming to be totally honest.
Seriously,a larger dog would already have its wings. Any dog that had bitten that many people that many times would of received its wings with me.
I don't believe dogs such as this have a place in Rescue/rehoming.
Sorry to be blunt but it's my honest opinion.
GageDesign Pet PhotographySite still in construction so will post link when it's finished.
My point is that unless you personally know the person, don't trust they will be putting their hand up for the right reasons or act responsibly down the track. This dog has bitten before so the responsible thing is to expect it will do it again. Dogs and people do not live in a vacuum, you cannot control what people do - what happens if the new owners decide they dont want her and just palm her off to someone else or she bites them and they hand her over to whoever without contacting you first? It's common in rescue for BS to happen after they swear black and blue they will do the right thing.When Muffy finds a new home (and she will), I will put my hand on my heart and say "You need to keep up her training and watch her around other dogs and kids, but she will be a great little dog if you put in the time and effort", etc. If someone wants her and is willing to put in the effort then why shouldn't she go to another home. Noone ever said she would be perfect and go live with an old lady with frequently visiting grandchildren. We still have to assess her around children (safely of course), as we wouldn't allow her to leave without seeing her reaction to them.
The question here is will Muffy be safe in the hands of a person who wont follow through with your list of demands on how she is to be treated - and assume they will not. Legally this dog has already caused quite significant harm to people, has frightened people and gets into fights with other dogs - if she was a big dog she would have been gone ten times over or declared dangerous. I think letting this dog go to anyone other then someone you know personally, can keep an eye on and knows about dog behavior is a bad idea.
I get your point. Thank you for responding.
Ok, I have a question for you.
Muffy had shown little to no signs of her behaviour described in the first post since we got her. I will remind you of what they were:
"She bites, she's barks at anything, she tries to eat you when you come to the front door - literally trying to savage you through fly-wire"
She only tried to bite Andrew the first night. We have had no issue with this since... She barks at the door as most dogs do, which is easily dealt with each time. There is no savagery through the door.
"she was almost adopted until, unprovoked, she bit the lady's daughter-in-law - causing her to bleed quite badly"
Based on her current behaviour, she does not bite anyone even when she shows signs of fear, which is not that often anymore... I believe this bite was not unprovoked.
"Muffy would never bite her carer. She becomes immediately protective to the point where she will cause damage to others"
She is not protective of Andrew or myself while we are in the house or out on our walks...
"Muff gets along with most dogs although she dislikes certain females and has been in many fights with Marie's dogs, causing Marie (her current carer) much distress"
Muffy has met approximately 30-40 different dogs in the time she has been with us. She has only had a "problem" with one of them and this was because it was standing over the top of her and going to hump her. She gave it a growl, did not bite or attack, and I stood in to move the dog away.
"......although she's great with cats. Just not humans!"
She has met several different people and she has not had a problem with any of them.
"I cannot put her up for adoption until these issues are sorted as she is dangerous at the moment. I can account for this, she has bitten me so many times and I see her regularly."
She is yet to catch up with this person again, however we plan a meeting in the coming weeks to determine if her behaviour was due to stress/fear/anxiety or if it was unprovoked.
My question is, if I had not posted the initial thread post quotes, would you still believe she is a dangerous dog that should not be rehomed?? I ask this because I honestly don't feel she was ever as bad as her emailed quotes make her out to be. As I said, her previous home was toxic, creating a fearful dog in a house of approximately 9 dogs, plus other animals. The foster carer did not know how to provide discipline or structure to her life, creating such a problem dog. Her previous home was below the standard of a "Joe Blow" home.
While I agree that you all have the right to feel worried about Muffy going into society based on the early threads, I can assure you, there are many dogs at the dogs parks and in society that are much worse than her. Muffy has even met some of these dogs during her time with us and has not reacted badly to them. (I'm sure someone will make a comment with something like "just because there are aggressive little dogs out there doesn't mean another one is ok", but then they will have missed my point)
Nekhbet, you live in Geelong. That's only an hour from me. Meeting half way would mean a 30min trip each way. If you are concrned/curious, you are welcome to meet Muffy and make judgement first hand... While a lot of people on this forum are knowledgeable, some more so than I, I don't believe you can actually judge a dog's temperament and behaviour issues without meeting it. If this were possible, you would do your consults via email or the phone. Let me know if you wish to meet Muffy and I'd be happy to make the effort to head your way.
For those actually interested in Muffy's progress, rather than shunning her into the dark and voicing their thoughts of euthanasia, we gave Muffy her first bath today. We found fleas (hence her scratching) so gave her a flea wash and collar until we can get some meds for her size. She did very well with the bath. She almost seemed to be enjoying it in the beginning but got over it towards the end and attempted to jump out a couple of times. Not once did she attempt to growl or bite us, nor did she freeze or cry in fear. After we got her out of her bath she was acting like a normal little fluff ball, rubbing herself on the towels (and carpet ) and let us brush her to remove knots.
Any tips on keeping her hair matt-free would be appreciated as she tends to knot quite easily.
Last edited by The Pawfectionist; 05-19-2012 at 09:12 PM.
get a product like No Nots and brush it through her coat or just clip her back shorter if she keeps matting. Also dont use a slicker use a proper comb.
Yes I would be curious to see her actually. Two such different dogs, she can't be bipolar and it cant just be a below par environment that has caused the biting. I have a habit of bringing out the best in dogs lol happy to take a look
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