I am wondering if the breeder with 18 dogs in her home is cherie luke?
No it's different breeder. Miley came from a lady called Michelle.
She has no litters at the moment no nowhere near 18 dogs right now.
I would like to clear up a few things, firstly not all breeders are running a business. I am not, nor is a pre-fix a business name. Though some do go so far as to register their kennel prefix name as a business name.
Breeders who have done this are normally called ******** Kennels.
Others who haven't registered a business name are called ******** Whippets.
They are purely a registered breeder not a registered business.
Come visit my dogs and tell me they are not in a loving family environment.
Then go and meet one of my dogs that has been re-homed and then tell me they aren't living a great life.
I will also say again if you have a dog in your home that couldn't (if the need arose) be re-homed then YOU have done that dog an injustice.
I know better than anyone that not all show people have an intense love for their dogs and their breed like I do, but you'll find good and bad people in all walks of life, not just registered breeders. But trust me I know a damn lot of breeders who do love their dogs just as much as you do.
But I ask you; would you prefer to buy from someone who is breeding quality, healthy, sound and true Whippets or would you prefer to walk into a home overrun by Whippets, who has shut their eyes to the breed as a whole and buy from them.
Co owning, yep been there and done that and am considering it again for my next litter. But do I want to put an entire bitch into a pet home, hmmmm? No I think I'd rather keep two bitch pups and rehome a de-sexed bitch later on.
And why not, I know I can raise that pup probably much better than someone else so it will go on to be a perfect pet that will thru no fault of it's own or thru poor puppy raising skills ever end up to be re-homed again.
Some people have no idea how to raise a puppy and often it's not because they are abusive or horrible to the dog but because they treated that dog like a human and now, for example, the dog cannot be left home alone without a bad case of separation anxiety, it was done thru love not anything horrible. They can go to a breeder and get an older dog with a full history on that dog. Sometimes for some people that will be a far more suitable avenue than going to a pound or shelter. It's part of the reason I like pure bred dogs, I know what I'm getting.
Me personally would never buy from someone who doesn't show. I want to buy from someone who really knows and has immersed themselves in their breed. They don't have kennel blindness.
I find it funny how people know all about all these horrible registered breeders but most do not socialise in circles where they come across registered breeders. I am fully immersed in the breeding and showing circles and know far more good breeders than bad.
All of the dogs currently in my home will not be re-homed, only because I could not part with not because they wouldn't be perfectly happy in another home. But I will continue to rehome young dogs & as I said previously generally they will be under the age of about 12-14 months of age.
If I had a quicker maturing breed then I would rehome even earlier. But sight hounds mature late.
If you don't want second rate dogs then breeders have to rehome. And remember that not all puppies in a litter are worthy of breeding on from and that it is impossible to be certain you have retained the right pup to breed on from at a young age.
I own two dogs I bought from breeders as young adults, one was 5 months old and one was 17 months old. Both adjusted into my home well. Both will see their breeders at shows and get excited to see them but are happy to walk away from them with me. (They were bought at that age because they were to be sold to a show home only and I bought them because at that age I knew what I was getting).
Before people knock breeders and those breeders that show they should step into their shoes. My hard work and my heartbreak has brought something to the breed and the pet buying public.
Last edited by MAC; 07-15-2011 at 08:04 AM.
Sorry, but I can't see that anything has been resolved here and I'd like to point out a few things.
What you did was not disagree, you passive aggressively attacked the morals of people who re-home thier dogs, and in particular, Pugger. Your statement to her was not disagreeing with her or discussing an alternative viewpoint, it was attacking her view about breeders re-homing and being a business.Was thinking the same thing, not much healthy discussion if you cant diasagree. Anyway sorry if I upset anyones applecart, was not my intention
There is a very big difference between offering an alternative viewpoint in a discussion and making judgemental calls on the ethics of people and what they do.
I believe it may not have been your intention to cause offence, but the way you are unable or unwilling to acknowledge your attitude is a major deficit in your 'apology'.
The 'excuse' as you put it, is not an excuse but a reason and a very logical one at that.I.................. But breeding and rehoming to make room for more is not an excuse. Someone mentioned before there breeder has 18 dogs?
How can you properly take care of 18 dogs? There is more to pet ownership than feeding them, brushing them and fresh water, they deserve better. I know I will have the wrath of many frowning down on me, but to me the description of a backyard breeder is one who has more dogs than they can provide wholesome care for, walks, stimulation, attention, car rides, swimming in the dam etc, someone who has no intention of keeping the dogs past their "useby date", does not provide proper nutrition or vet care or environment. Dogs can not live in cages!!!!!!
The excuse of improving the breed, is just not good enough! You CAN improve the breed, without rehoming, will just take a bit longer and their are many many more doing the same so you can all work together for a common goal. Keep the retirees and co own and show the offspring with other breed enthusiasts. Win for you and a win for your animals!
Genuine quesiton - Cavaliers, as we all know, have many genetic health issues. How do you, as a breeder, overcome these issues in your breeding program?
How many dogs do you have in your breeding program?
Why do you breed dogs?
I'll give a supposed scenario to illustrate what I am getting at (note well - I am NOT a breeder in real life and I have only a rudimentary understanding of genetics).
I am a Pug breeder and I have 3 Pugs. 1 dog and 2 bitches.
Bitch A has developed a degree of pigmentary keratitis due to chronic dry eye. (PK is common in the Pug breed).
Bitch B is in great health but her sire suffered luxating patellas (another common genetic issue in Pugs)
The male dog has a degree of brachycephalic syndrome. (Almost every Pug has some degree of this)
The purpose of my breeding program is to breed a healthy Pug so that others may enjoy having a healthy Pug as a pet or to breed or show. I want to keep brachy syndrome to a minimum and eradicate totally luxating patellas and PK.
I breed bitch A to the dog. They have a litter of 4 pups. 3 of them have brachy syndrome, 1 has PK. I don't keep any of the litter.
I still have 3 dogs.
I breed bitch B to the dog and they have 2 pups. 1 is perfect without issues, the other has luxating patellas.
I'd like to keep the perfect pup to add to my breeding program, so I do.
I now have 4 Pugs. 2 are good genetic specimens, the other 2 have issues.
I breed bitch B again, but this time I mate it with a friends sire who also has a good genetic record.
They produce 2 pups. 1 is in perfect health (a dog), and the other has PK. I re-home all as I already have 4 dogs at this point.
I breed bitch A again, this time to the perfect sire owned by my friend mentioned above but all of the litter have genetic problems. I decide that I should not breed with this girl as the genetic issues she carries are not going to produce a healthy dog. I desex her.
2 years has now passed since my first litter. I have 4 Pugs. 1 is a desexed bitch, one bitch is entire and shows she can produce healthy pups but has the problems in her lines that may show up in her litters and I have 2 entire males, one who is a good genetic specimen and the other who isn't.
I can't mate my good bitch with my good dog because the genetics may be a problem together and there has been much said about inbreeding. So... how do I overcome this? Do I perhaps bring in another bitch or dog that shows promise. If I do that I will have 5 dogs. The numbers are beginning to grow... what do I do?
My friend also has 4 dogs. We breed two of our healthiest and they produce a little with 1 great specimen... but what to do? If I keep this one, I'll have 5 and if she keeps it she'll have 5.
We rehome them all. We are worried about being slandered as a farmer or someone who produces too many litters. We also don't want to be accused of hoarding. Our breeding program has to slow dramatically. Our dogs are all young.
Should we wait till one dies and then find another dog to add to the breeding program? We decide to tdo this.
10 years have now passed and the good specimens I produced all those years ago have either been desexed or they were mated with different dogs and no-one continued on with my breeding intent on those lines. The potential of those lines has been diluted and has faded. one of my dogs dies - now I can get another to continue my breeding program... but alas, the others are all far too old to breed from and were desexed many years ago anyway.
There goes my breeding program. There is no point in getting another dog to breed. My 3 remaining Pugs are old and grey and very sweet, but the program is long gone.
Through all this, I never got to that point where I was producing litters of healthy specimens becuase my breeding program was curtailed due to numbers.
If, after bitch A was desexed she was re-homed to a loving home, I could have introduced another breeding bitch into the lines and my lines continue. Then, when bitch B was too old to breed from, she was desexed and also re-homed and same for the dogs I could have conintually added to the program.
I may have found nirvana at the end and 10 years down the track I might have been producing a whole litter of good healthy Pugs.
Sure, now that is way over simplified and factually incorrect genetically speaking, but it should give some understanding of the issue of why dogs are re-homed. There are good and valid reasons for breeders to re-home dogs.
There will always be dogs re-homed for reasons that I do not neccessarily agree with, but to my way of thinking, and as a rescuer I would much rather those dogs end up in a home where they are lvoed and wanted then remain in a home that doesn' t neccessarily want them anyway.
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
An optimist sees the glass as half full;
A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.
Anne, how many times can I hit the thank you button? Not enough I'm afraid.
If we want good dogs, good breeders need to be able to re-home without judgement.
I offer money back on proof of de-sexing to my puppy buyers and I offer to take back any puppy I have bred regardless of it's age. I hope that by careful screening of potential puppy buyers the need never arises, but this is the real world and things happen.
If cavalierqld had asked for proof that people on here are registered breeders etc, I have no doubt that she would have been shut down and blocked. How dare others question her claims? And to me, without any real basis? That shocked me and made me very uncomfortable. I see a lot of people on here attacking others for their viewpoints. Unfortunately the degree to which you are attacked seems to diminish with the length of time you have been here, which basically comes across as the old gang vs someone new.
The reason I didn't report any posts was that it appeared that the thread had calmed down a bit (I read through about 9 pages in one go, I think) and thought that would be dredging up something that had settled.
I'm sure people will disagree and this will add fuel to the fire. But I honestly can't believe the things some people say here, when they are so quick to jump on someone for a different opinion. It's like people are just waiting for a chance to jump, and then after a few pages someone raises that it's hard to communicate tone, and easy to mis-read what somebody meant. For god's sake, everybody knows this. It's a forum, and they're written words on the internet - relax a bit, and consider that you may be misinterpreting somebody, before it escalates like this! Bear this in mind while you're conversing with people on the internet!
You know there is always more than one side to a story
her side, my side and the truth.
I was offended and defended myself... in my view. I didn't do it just because I like to bully people. I apologised for reacting to my misinterpretation of the post and cavalierqld and I have both move on. If people want to keep dredging it up and making remarks on my/her conduct after I have already discussed it, then I will lock the thread.
Last edited by puggerup; 07-15-2011 at 10:04 AM.
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