The breeder of my dogs wont sell to sports home so that doesnt help.
The breeder of my dogs wont sell to sports home so that doesnt help.
Last edited by Kalacreek; 06-01-2011 at 08:17 AM.
i found them i sent a email will call them later too your right they look like perfict i might have to go on a waiting list but it will be well worth it thanx
That is great. The ones over here that I know are very fast!
I'm just wondering your reasoning behind this?ANKC is what it is - a register for showbred dogs. It is not involved in anyway in the breeding of working line dogs thank goodness!
Why would it be bad for working dogs to be ANKC registered? Is it because they don't agree with the code of ethics or something different?
I just really do not see why? ANKC is not just a show register, you said yourself that one of the kennels you suggested is duel ANKC registered so why the big deal about ANKC dogs being bad?
Working dogs have a different conformation don't they? To my knowledge, working dogs are bred specific for purpose, not for visual presentation whereas ANKC registered lines breed for visual presentation. Both groups obviously breed for health as well, but the reason for breeding is different and so this has resulted in two dogs that are the same, but very different.
That's my take on it anyway.
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
An optimist sees the glass as half full;
A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.
Working breeders of serious working dogs do not agree with breeding to a conformation standard, it goes against everything they work to achieve.
Working breeders select for thigs like natural cast, blind cast,eye, force on livestock, etc. They often like short haired dogs with length of leg but this will vary with terrain and climate. They dont breed to a conformation standard - they simply dont care about such things. My working breeder absolutely refuses to sell her dogs to the pet or sports markets as they are bred to work livestock.
There is really no point in working bred dogs being ANKC registered. My purebred working kelpie is registered on the Working Kelpie council register. She has a pedigree as long as my arm, same with my BC.
The ANKC registers are irrelvant to them in fact most breeders of working Border collies are vehemently opposed to what the show breeders are doing to these working breeds. It is to them a gross distortion of the breed and they go as far as to call them Barbie collies in the USA and it started the Border collie wars - there was a big fight to try and prevent the BC being recognised by the AKC. The working breeders believe the "Barbie" collie is now a separate breed and should not be considered a Border collie because working ability is what essentially defines this breed. They also believe it has led the BC becoming more popular as a pet in often unsuitable homes, leading to large scale dumping of these dogs as the craze to own a BC errupted. The working breeders believed they were best left on farms or at most as sport dogs in a sport home which a working BC is suitable for.
As I explained my dogs are registered with ANKC because I compete in agility with them, but they are only elgible to be registered on the sporting register as a no breed dog. Their lengthy pedigrees are not recognided, so if you dont compete in ANKC venues there is no point.
The dual registered Border collies are UK imports, they have different views on dual registration and different breed standards with some attempt to recognise the dogs roots from original working stock, and if you go to the web page of that breeder you will see her dogs bear little resemblance to the Australian Showbred and would certainly fail miserably in the Australian showring. She is what we call a breeder of sport dogs. Nothing wrong with that although some working breeders would disagree.
In the USA if you are dual registered and title your dog in an ANKC/AKC conformation show you are immediately struck of the working register as it is considered a breach of ethics regarding the breeding of working dogs. There is a great hatred of the AKC by true working breeders, they would walk on hot coals rather than be involved in anthing to do with them.
I am not opposed to the ANKC I just dont see any value to the breeder of true working dogs who have their own registers and a completely different agenda. Their dogs prove themselves in the paddocks and utility trials not the show rings.
I think it is very difficult for people who dont raise large number of livestock in difficult terrain to understand the true value of a good working dog. I certainly couldnt run my enterprise wothout them - I would need to hire extra help. Stockmen only care for the dogs ability in the paddock and yards and the lines that the dog is from and the thought that has gone into the breeding often has a big impact on the difference between a good, average and useless dog. Ear carriage is not even in the frame LOL.
So hopefully that gives you some insight. Working breeders view the ANKC as irrelevant and want no part of breeding working dogs for the showring. A true working breeder sells their dogs to farmers or triallers to work livestock, these people only wants a good stockdog.
My BC is at least 2cm taller than the breed standard, has the most apalling ears, a much narrower head and rangier body and would have the showbreeders tut tutting I am sure. But he is a fantastic working dog on a big mob, very fast, tough and strong! and has a cast to die for!
Last edited by Kalacreek; 06-02-2011 at 02:28 PM.
that website just about broke my computer - so many pix on the one page. Never mind.
I think I've met some of those dogs and handlers. Great dogs for agility, highly sought after. Can't comment on their other skills.
There would be a fair bit of competition for a puppy. If I was them, I would be saying - person I don't know at all vs my friend who is a champion agility handler? Guess who the puppy goes to. But you could ask them to recommend other breeders if they don't have any puppies available.
And if I was getting a BC, I'd be trying to avoid a white face and nose because of skin cancer risks.
yeah i see your point thanx
It wouldn't hurt to ask. If everyone thought "I've got no chance" they might have all their puppies available, but it may work out inbetween. If you don't ask, you would never find out.
The best method for asking is probably a phone call. If you can organise to meet up with them at some event convenient to both of you, so much the better, ie they're much more likely to be favourable to you if you meet them than just by email or phone call.
And again - they will know who else is good out there.
A lot of breeders get scam emails so they aren't always that polite in response. Once you have made phone or face to face contact then you can ask them about communicating via email.
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