"The solid red or black Koolie are often mistaken for Kelpies"
"The solid red or black Koolie are often mistaken for Kelpies"
Education not Legislation
Written text can so often come across the wrong way because we don't have the benefit of seeing or hearing emotions. I see that comment as being nothing more than a suggestion.
I am curious though (not defensive) as to why you would compare a breed that has been around over a hundred years, bred purely to be a working dog, to a newly created designer breed.
Interesting post AMF
Very few of the real working dogs used on the huge properties in the outback are ANKC registered.
Neither coat colour nor eye colour a good dog make,and no good working dog is a bad colour! nor does conformation matter up to a point, should there be an undesirable recessive gene attached to a coat colour or shape for instance, that line will die out in the real working world and fast.
To breed to better the breed is not always to be recognised by a body who is only a registry who may make suggestions but does not make rules to ensure dogs are actually being bred to improve the breed, to make those rules the breed clubs need to step up or the ANKC needs to stop being just a bunch of antiquated old hens keeping paper records with no checks on weather or not those records are correct.
Even though we have had micro chips in for years, and DNA parentage tests. Chips have been made mandatory in QLD by GVT not ANKC or breed clubs and DNA parentage tests were decided against years ago by Dogs QLD, and maybe the whole ANKC for all I know, not onto what other states do.
The ANCK and start to encourage real changes in approved breeding practices, until then a Coolie could be a miss-marked Kelpie or vice versa, no proof otherwise either way.
I can remember owning Coolies as a child over 50 odd years ago so they have been around a long time, they were considered a breed by graziers even back then.
Possibly DNA from a number of individual dogs from both types would prove weather or not there is a common ancestry ?
I'm not being defensive, I was giving my opinion which is what you asked for. I don't own a Koolie so have nothing to be defensive about :P
Have a look at wikipedia for each of the dog 'group' pages (eg. "Hound Group"). They contain a list of breeds, some of which are not registered with the AKC, some are not registered with the ANKC, some are registered with neither. ANKC registration is definitely not the be-all and end-all! Interestingly, the AKC has what they call a "Foundation Stock Service" (American Kennel Club - List of FSS Breeds) which contains breeds which should be recognised in the future but are not yet.
I can think of a few examples of breeds that were only recently recognised by the ANKC - Bergamasco Shepherd Dog, Portugese Podengo, Xoloitzcuintle. They were still "breeds" before they were on the ANKC list
From what I understand, there is common ancestry from most true working dogs in Australia.
Farmers wouldn't use koolies if they were crap working dogs..
Koolies are a much older breed than the very recent Aussie Shepherd (which was developed in the USA btw and not in Australia).
Many old breeds are not officially recognised. That doesn't necessarily mean they are less purebred or less of a breed in their own right. Has anyone heard of a Murray Valley Curly Coated Retriever? An old Australian breed. Not recognised.
Many breeds look like other breeds. A Whippet could be called a small Greyhound, a Bearded Collie is often confused with an Old English Sheepdog etc etc. The list is endless.
Koolies are amazing dogs, and a set breed with a devoted following and their own stud books. Saying they were an incorrectly coloured Kelpie would be like saying a Kelpie was an incorrectly coloured Dingo.
I am the owner of both a Koolie and a kelpie and I also run a livestock enterpirise of which my working dogs are an intergral part.
A Koolie is definitely not a flawed kelpie. They are quite distinct in both their character and the way they work livestock with the Koolie being a more upright worker with less eye than a Kelpie.
Koolies that were shipped to America in the 1940s/50s with some merino sheep and are also thought to be foundation dogs for the Australian shepherd - hence the term Aussies according to an old timer who was on the ship with the sheep and dogs.
I am not a great fan of working dogs being recognised by the ANKC and bred purely to a set standard based on their looks. My dogs are all working bred, selected purely for their ability to work stock. My Border collie for instance has a lengthy pedigree with some of the best Australian and UK ISDS working dogs in his lines but he is not recognised by the ANKC as a BC and has to be on the associate or sporting registers. My kelpie is registered with the working kelpie council also with a lengthy pedigree and ditto with the ANKC. Koolies are not a breed recognised by ANKC but who cares. They are a formidable working dog and the good breeders know how to breed them for their correct purpose.
I also own a lovely showbred BC that I rescued and do agility with but she is completely useless on sheep and has an extremely long heavy coat which I have to take the clippers to during grass seed season.
My dogs are awesome working dogs, each with their strengths and weaknesses. If I was breeding them that is what I would be looking for. How to match them to get a sound structure, and the style of working and temperament I need in my enterprise and my own working style. I might favour short coats in my BCs because it is most practical, but ear set, eye colour and coat colour are generally irrelevant although obviously merle breedings need to be done properly to avoid the health issues.
Koolies are wonderful versatile dogs. They are easy to teach and desperate to please.
Last edited by Kalacreek; 10-11-2010 at 02:06 AM.
Get to work breeders and make them a breed.Research and DNA testing has shown that the Koolie is descended from Collie lines. Smooth coated blue merle Collies were imported to Australia around 1940. German author Von Stephanitz wrote in his book dated 1925 that Australian Graziers were sufficiently impressed with German sheepdogs to import some, these dogs were known as Alpine Header Breeds and the blue and red merle Tigers was amongst their numbers. It is generally accepted that due to the striking resemblance and similar traits these two breeds are the origins of the Australian Koolie. More can be read of Von Stephanitz’s classic work in Angela Sanderson book Australian Dogs.
The Koolie breed is one of the oldest breeds of working dogs in Australia, unfortunately records were never kept regarding parentage. In order for this breed to be officially recognized by the Australian National Kennel Control, stud and breed records must be kept for a minimum of five hundred fifth generations.
I recon they're beautiful.
Respect and you shall be respected. Animal is always right.
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