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  1. #1

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    Hi there
    I just have a short question in regards of breeding.... normally I am not visiting forums very often but from what I heard from others was that on many forums cross breeders are treated badly by pure breeders just because they are crossbreeding even if these cross breeders are doing a good job with selecting sound and suitable dogs from the parent breeds, health testing etc. I certainly don't mean puppy farms...
    Therefore I'd like to know how this is handled here on this forum?
    Thanks
    Siska

  2. #2

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    Hi Siska,

    Well I certainly cannot answer for anyone else but I can say that I am not a fan of it.
    I don't see the reasoning behind breeding crosses , sorry.

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    Site still in construction so will post link when it's finished.

  3. #3
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    Hello Siska,

    I would be interested in your thoughts....I am not a breeder, I am involved in the rescue of dogs living on death row in NSW pounds, but please don't let that put you off.

    I am genuinly open to discussion and would like to hear your views.

    I am aware of the dynamics between registered purebred breeders and breeders of cross bred dogs. In particular DD's, oodles, spoodles, beagiler's etc.

    I do not believe it is so much the difference of cross breed dogs v's purebreeds, more the vast moral and ethical differences of the person responsible for breeding puppies, the care, wellbeing and quality of life of the mother and puppies in particular, point of sale and the rehoming process.

    From a rescue point of view my concern lies in a number of areas.

    1. Breeders are largely unregulated and there is no minimum standard of care for animals used to breed with. It is common for dogs to be treated inhumanely, particularly by puppy farmers and BYB's. This has been seen prolifically in Australia and overseas.

    2. There is massive profit associated with selling a puppy, and unscrupulous breeders cut corners to maximise those profits.

    3. The rehoming process is typically very poor by unscrupulous breeder's. And this put's the animals into a high risk catargory for dumping, abandonment, passive neglect and abuse within it's life. I had a DD privately surrendered to me today...a pet shop babe who has suffered from passive neglect by his owners all his life. Once he grew and was not so tiny and cute he was banished to the back yard...he is a mess let me tell you.

    Often they are sold to pet shops that rely upon and promote the impulse buying of animals. BYB's and puppy farmers will sell to anyone who hands over the cash. Over the internet, trading post, side of the road, notice boards, carparks...you name it.

    4. There is little to no follow up support and guidence for new puppy owners.
    And if the owners circumstances change there is no fall back...the dogs end up on deathrow in a shelter or pound through no fault of their own.

    With the greatest respect, could you please tell me how you are able to select sound, healthy parents with out a long line of solid parentage?
    It takes hundreds of years to breed out genetic and behavioural faults.

    Also what health testing do you do in particular?

    I feel personally disolusioned as a rescuer as while hundreds of thousands of healthy rehomeable family pets are being killed in pounds and shelters across this country some people persist on breeding more.

    We should be rehoming dogs already born rather than pumping out more animals simply for $$$.

    Lastly, If i could wave a magic wand and instantly eliminate all profit from the live sale of dogs in this country 99% of the people who rely upon profit riding on the back of animals would vanish into thin air....

    Look forward to your response..

    B
    Last edited by Billy; 02-01-2009 at 08:37 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChoppaChop View Post
    Hi Siska,

    Well I certainly cannot answer for anyone else but I can say that I am not a fan of it.
    I don't see the reasoning behind breeding crosses , sorry.

    Hi Choppa Chop!!!

    B

  5. #5

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    *waves to B*
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  6. #6
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    I personall dont think a x breeder is going to be treated well anywhere as many pure bread breaders and akin to Hitlers airan (dont think i spelt that correctly) ideals and they are the only correct ones.
    Many pure breaders puppy mill but they think as a whole they are better.
    I think that they need to realise that all dogs are a x breed somewhere along the line the aussie silky only became a registered breed about 20 years ago whats not to say the spoodle or groodle wont be a recognised breed in another 20. I dont agree with puppy mills or anything but I am for the x breeds one of the reasons is I dont have 1 breed that I like all of the breed characteristics.
    Whatever I say will be counteracted by someone else and them by someone else its a visciouse cycle that has no end.
    Hope you find an answer

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERINAH View Post
    I personall dont think a x breeder is going to be treated well anywhere as many pure bread breaders and akin to Hitlers airan (dont think i spelt that correctly) ideals and they are the only correct ones.
    Many pure breaders puppy mill but they think as a whole they are better.
    I think that they need to realise that all dogs are a x breed somewhere along the line the aussie silky only became a registered breed about 20 years ago whats not to say the spoodle or groodle wont be a recognised breed in another 20. I dont agree with puppy mills or anything but I am for the x breeds one of the reasons is I dont have 1 breed that I like all of the breed characteristics.
    Whatever I say will be counteracted by someone else and them by someone else its a visciouse cycle that has no end.
    Hope you find an answer
    Hi Erinah,

    I disagree. There is nothing wrong with cross breeds at all, in fact i rescue/foster cross breeds day in day out.

    I love cross breeds...I prefer then in many ways, I can't stand that they are bred so poorly, suffer inhumane conditions and are a disposable commodity for those who buy them on impulse.

    Puppy farmers and BYB breed "purebred" dogs, yes. Though they are no differently bred than spoodles, cockerdoodles etc.

    Puting a male and female dog together of the same breed means squat in terms of genetics, health and temperament.

    And while hundreds of healthy, rehomeable pets died today who have been disguarded by there owners through no fault of their own, others are marked for death tomorrow.

    The oversupply of dogs for $$$$ in this country is a disgrace.

    It is not a debate of cross breed vs purebred don't you see.

    It is about inhumane conditions. It is about cruelty and neglect. It is because the mother of the puppies will NEVER walk upon grass! Nor be cuddled, shown affection or praise. She will spin in circles for years in a tiny metal crate stacked upon other dogs in the same position. She is FORCED to breed litters, has no vet care and will die once her reproductive years are gone. Her vocal cords may be cut to stop her crying or making any noise.

    I am sorry to be so blunt but i have had enough!

    NO self respecting human being will support mass breeding of ANY kind.

    B

  8. #8
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    I agree with you completley Billy and I think what I wrote must have been misleading coz I wasnt supporting puppymills at all what I was trying to say is that I beleive that on this forum or on any other a x breeder no matter how good they are and how well they treat their dogs they will not be responded to well as many people have something against x breeds that pure breads are the only way to go.
    I in no way support any form of puppy farming.
    I think dogs (well bread registered ones) are too expensive and force people to go the backyard way.
    I also think that all dogs should have to be desexed or be on a register to be bread and if you are on that register there should be 'spot checks' and manditory vet checks training and temperment testing.
    Opening a can of worms here?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERINAH View Post
    I agree with you completley Billy and I think what I wrote must have been misleading coz I wasnt supporting puppymills at all what I was trying to say is that I beleive that on this forum or on any other a x breeder no matter how good they are and how well they treat their dogs they will not be responded to well as many people have something against x breeds that pure breads are the only way to go.
    I in no way support any form of puppy farming.
    I think dogs (well bread registered ones) are too expensive and force people to go the backyard way.
    I also think that all dogs should have to be desexed or be on a register to be bread and if you are on that register there should be 'spot checks' and manditory vet checks training and temperment testing.
    Opening a can of worms here?
    Hi Erinah,

    Sorry it has taken me so long to post.

    I become very stressed out puppy farming, pet shops and BYB as I see the effects day in day out and it is truly horendous. Sorry....

    I hope that one day we will be able to regulate/register cross breeds.
    Sadly it is simply not possible for now as these x bred angels simply amount to enormous profit for their masters with maximum neglect and cruelty They are not interested in health, genetics or temperament

    There is absolutely a different mentality between Rescue, RB and the rest.

    Registers, mandatory desexing and a register of licenced cross breeders would be great though impossible to enforce at this stage....It is so frustrating as actual legislation means nothing to these evil people as they know it is impossible to enforce...

    We will get there eventually and there is good progress though way to slow due to the efforts of the delinquants who profit from the oversupply of animals.

    B

  10. #10

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    Hi again,
    as I said in my first post I am not often on forums but I read with interest all the replies to my question. Thanks, guys.

    I am not a breeder, in fact so far all the dogs I ever had came either from a registered breeder or are some sort of rescue dogs.But I am very tolerant towards all dogs, no matter which breed or cross breed. My two girls here at home are an ex-assistance dog (Labradoodle), which I raised and trained myself for a person in a wheelchair, and when she was not needed anymore she came back to me, and a Golden Retriever girl who got caught up in the family split up of her former owners and I took her in. The Labradoodle is the first cross breed I ever owned so far and I have to say it was such a pleasure to train her, she is very smart, so willing to please and even learned also the more difficult things in her special task training amazingly fast, often already after the second try. Before the Labradoodle I raised and pre-trained a Labrador for Seeing Eye Dogs.
    The dogs I had before I came to Australia came from dog shelters.

    Anyway, I do have a friend who is cross breeding very carefully by selecting her parent dogs, doing all the health tests (hips/elbows, eyes, heart etc.) that also registered breeders are supposed to do etc.The all together 4 dogs, a stud dog, a now retired bitch and two younger bitches, are family dogs, leading their lives as much loved and cared for pets, pups are raised in the home and well looked after, housetrained before they leave, microchipped, vet checked, vaccinated... all the stuff that "good" breeders do and cross breeders supposedly don't do. Nevertheless this breeder just recently has been rejected by a pet insurance company just because she is cross breeding and therefore her puppies won't be insured as they would have been, if they were pure breed pups.

    The majority of people involved in dogs and breeding etc. don't seem to even try to make a difference between 'registered' breeders = automatically good breeders? and cross breeders = automatically bad breeders, who are always only after the money?? Why is that?

    And when does a breeder become a puppy farmer? Is it the number of breeding dogs, the way these dogs are held and treated, the number of litters per month/year? There are pure breeders out there that have definitely more than only one or two breeding dogs and also more litters per year than necessary to just better the breed standard. Aren't they also going in direction puppy mill then? Where to draw the line? Who has the right to decide which breed is 'right' and which isn't and therefore shouldn't be bred?

    I am definitely not for dog farmers, puppy mills, I am just a bit upset about the fact that many people obviously lump non pure breeders together without even trying to see that there are differences and not all cross breed dogs are automatically purely bred, neglegted etc.

    Thanks guys
    Siska

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