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Thread: Confused on South Australian Restricted Dog Laws regarding cross breeds

  1. #1

    Default Confused on South Australian Restricted Dog Laws regarding cross breeds

    I hope ive not covered another thread but as my first post I have to admit I came looking for a dog forum so i could access the viewpoints of some 'people in the know'.

    I am so confused about these dangerous dog laws. Not the obvious pedigree status for restricted and dangerous breeds but rather that murky line of crossbreeds.

    In South Australia it is tough to have a American Pit Bull as its only 1 of 5 on a restrictive list. The American Bulldog is on a dangerous breed list.

    So when a BYB (back yard breeder) started selling crossbred 1/3 American pitbull with 1/3 American bulldog and 1/3 English staffy, which in my opinion looked strongly like a pitbull and bulldog in its cranial features more than a staffy, I asked several questions of the breeder about laws, about the nature of the animal, and the fact it was crossbred and not pedigree. Didnt get to the part about how it resembled a pitbull, they didnt answer my questions or give me any information to show me where they were coming from in their arguement, just did a lot of defensive childish trolling.

    In the RSPCA they state pitbulls are illegal to be bred and sold in SA, another site says councils who can recognise an unregistered pitbull in them have to seize it and will choose either to desex it with a fine or destroy it.

    Then i read about how there is fierce debate about the usual 'dont blame the breed, blame the owner' which doesnt help things cause that makes logical sense although not always practical.

    The attitude of the BYB was quite concerning, they adamantly stated that none of their puppies being sold to people will bite or maul anyone, that they didnt care about any such laws because its a crossbreed, and the laws are stupid because they are picking on a dog from reputation. Things went quiet a bit when i presented a couple of news articles about the dog attacks which prompted the law changes and I felt their assumption that no dog will mature and can turn, a little disconcerting.

    And with a strong gene pool - so not even 'watered down' on the crossbreed scale - of a specified dangerous dog and looking 2/3 like one (despite being a cute puppy) I know from breeding experience that means 2/3 genetic traits of both breeds in chance of formulating.

    And yes I do agree and see the point of a puppy is as good as its owner and upbringing, but BYB'ers cant predict throwback or trigger genetics or the future so cant say that their puppy wont oneday grow up quietly for 3 or 4 years and suddenly randomly turn on a human and lockjaw.

    What exactly is the current status of crossbreed pitbulls (esp this one which has a half pitbull pedigree (presumably) parent) when it comes to people advertising, selling and breeding them in South Australia?

    These puppies arent desexed, arent muzzled, not registered, bred and being sold. And doesnt even look like a staffy.

    I tried to ask these BYB-ers but they were more offended that i asked genuine important questions so werent much help.

    Thanks in advance, I appreciate any input offered.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009


    Hi Tessasmum

    I would avoid getting a puppy from the back yard breeder - but possibly not for the reasons you suggest.

    Mostly because it's unlikely they've done any health checks on either parent dog to make sure they aren't matching up bad genetics.

    If you can meet both parent dogs and have high confidence that the dog you are shown is indeed the father of the puppy that you choose - and both parent dogs are well behaved around strange humans (you and others) and other dogs - then the chances of the puppy growing up to be human aggressive would be low based on its genetics as best you can tell from its parents.

    Ie this won't happen.
    their puppy wont oneday grow up quietly for 3 or 4 years and suddenly randomly turn on a human and lockjaw.
    It's very very rare that this kind of scenario does happen. I know lots of people say their dog was never like that before - but there's usually signs well in advance that a person who can read dog body language can see coming a mile away. All you need to do is look at all the youtube videos of toddlers harrassing dogs and the dogs showing all sorts of leave me alone signals that the parents ignore and laugh about. Bite waiting to happen.
    Didn’t see that bite coming? Look a little harder

    The chances of a dog turning on a human are increased by
    1. dog never spending any time with its humans - eg being left out in the back yard with food and water but no interaction, no walks, no training, no fun. Like solitary confinement prison. Dogs are social creatures.

    2. Dog not desexed

    3. dog doesn't know the human (adult or child)

    4. dog has been abused by humans including "dominance" style training where a dog is "forced" to submit. Dog "submission" is not worth anything if it is forced, it must be freely offered. Same with humans. You're much more likely to have bad thoughts about hurting someone who forces you to do something (eg a mugger) than if you freely helped them out (a beggar).

    In South Australia - there is only the breed specific legislation (BSL) introduced by Customs and Quarantine ie Pitbulls are a banned import. The BSL is supposed to reduce the incidence of severe dog bites but it doesn't actually work.

    In Italy, they "banned" 95 different breeds of dog and the incidence of severe dog bites did not change. So eventually they repealed the legislation.

    Similar thing has happened in Victoria. They banned Pitbulls and "pit bull crosses" and made up a visual id sheet - ie council dog catchers went out and seized dogs based on looks alone and not behaviour. And this was found to be a very flawed method of identifying dangerous dogs.

    Eg a huski looks nothing like a pitbull but a huski can inflict serious damage... The dog that killed Ayen Chol was a mutt, not a pitbull. And it suffered from all the risk factors I listed above and linked in Victoria Stillwell's article. Ie it was a back yard garden ornament and did not know the neighbour's kids.

    In South Australia - the council rangers - mostly don't work on weekends unless there has been some prior arrangement. They will pick up a stray dog if someone has already caught it but it may be several hours before they show up.

    A dog that has attacked another dog or human - you call the police. The response is faster. And in rural areas - the dog will simply be shot by the farmer.

    What exactly is the current status of crossbreed pitbulls esp this one which has a half pitbull pedigree (presumably) parent
    It's unlikely that this pitbull would have an ANKC pedigree. There is no other sort in Australia unless it came from Overseas. These dogs have been a banned import for longer than the life span of most dogs - ie it goes back to the 1990s. It would certianly exceed the breeding life span of any bitch - so the idea that the bitch is an ANKC (or any other) pedigree pitbull is a lie or illegal. That you could report as fraud to consumer affairs or as a customs violation. I'm not sure who enforces the breeding rules - it's probably council. And they would have a hard time proving anything unless they pose as a puppy buyer and the seller shows them the "pedigree" papers.

    This is from the South Australian Dog and Cat management board.
    It is illegal (and council has to enforce) to own an pit bull (prescribed breed) that is not desexed. It's not illegal to breed or sell crosses. They must be registered with the local council, but it's not illegal for them to be unmuzzled on private property.

    45B—Specific duties relating to dogs of prescribed breed
    (1) A person who owns or is responsible for the control of a dog of a prescribed breed is
    guilty of an offence if, while not effectively confined to premises of which that person
    is the occupier, the dog—
    (a) does not have a muzzle securely fixed on its mouth so as to prevent it from
    biting any person or animal; or
    (b) is not under the effective control of a person by means of physical restraint.
    Maximum penalty: $2 500.
    Expiation fee: $210.
    (2) A person who owns or is responsible for the control of a dog of a prescribed breed is
    guilty of an offence if the dog is not desexed.
    Maximum penalty: $2 500.
    (3) It is a defence to a charge of an offence against subsection (2) if it is proved that the
    defendant believed on reasonable grounds that the dog was desexed.
    (4) A person who sells or gives away, or advertises for sale or to give away, a dog of a
    prescribed breed is guilty of an offence.
    Maximum penalty: $2 500.
    South Australian Legislation - dog and cat management act

    The minister responsible for the act
    Ian Hunter MLC

    Unless the dogs actually bite someone - I doubt anyone else will see this as a problem. True American Pit Bull Terriers were never supposed to bite people. Any that do - have something (genetic or environmental) wrong with them.

    Again - it's not the dog breed. It's owners who don't do the right thing by the health tests and choosing for good temperament (tho these people say they did pick for temperament). And owners who think the law does not apply to them. For that reason - I would avoid them. They're probably lying about the heritage and breed anyway.

    meanwhile you might find these amusing

    pick the pitbull
    Pick the Pit - Can you find the Pitbull?

    what is the proper way to hurt a dog (spoiler - there isn't - unless you're a vet doing a vax or treating an injury)
    What is the "Proper" Way to Hurt a Dog? | Your Pit Bull and You

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2009


    prescribed breed means any of the following breeds:
    (a) American Pit Bull Terrier;
    (b) Fila Braziliero;
    (c) Japanese Tosa;
    (d) Dogo Argentina;
    (e) Presa Canario;
    also - how do you get equal thirds? Surely they mean 50% pitbull and 25% each of the others?

    oh and

    The American Bulldog is on a dangerous breed list.
    Don't confuse an American Bulldog with an American Pit Bull Terrier - they're not the same.

    Also American bull dogs are not recognised by ANKC. Papers from the ANKC for puppies cost about $30 per puppy not $300. I notice a gumtree ad for American Bull dogs (and one for English blue staff - argh - skin problems much?) and the American Bull dogs say papers from not ANKC - so basically I could print something up official looking with my computer and you pay $300 for that and no council in Australia will recognise it as legit.

    Gumtree - is just a nightmare place to get a puppy. Don't look.
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 03-22-2015 at 03:04 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009


    You might also find this interesting

    And you might find your puppy here instead.

    Search puppies in SA

    If you do want a pedigree bulldog - you might want to send ejburke a message and ask where she got hers - he is adorable and she did a lot of research.

  5. #5


    Hi ,
    I just wanted to add to Hyacinths great educational posts that there NO SUCH THING AS LOCK JAW !

    By the way,this is Choppachop but I couldn't remember my password so I created a new account *sigh*
    Anything you can do Hya ?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2009


    sent momma bear a PM

    I can't reset your password but I can tell you what email the fix it will be sent to.

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