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Thread: The Ups & Downs Of Getting a Pup

  1. #161
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    Feel free to ignore the elephant in the room. Which is the fact that it is apparently totally acceptable to ignore the welfare of the pups because there is a demand for spotty Dalmatians.

    But aren't those crossbreed breeders just evil!

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexie44light View Post
    Ok well this thread took a hugggeee turn..

    I have delt with two deaf dogs both bulldogs, who with time and patience were amazingly behaved. Yet it did take a special person to teach them.. but the point is those people were given the chance to train them. No one is being given the chance to train the (registered) deaf dallies.

    And I dont see why its been made out the dallies are sooooooo hard to train. I would have though more high strung dogs such as GSP's, Kelpies, Vizlas, Weimeraners etc would be harder to train. Our current next door neighbours have a dally (about 4 i think) who is generally not the best behaved dog.. but the worst? no way by far.

    And generally those dallies I've met havnt been that badly behaved. Am I missing something? Are they like the 'impossible' breed of the dog world. Because I'm pretty sure they're just like any other high strung dog.. so if other deaf high strung dogs can be trained why cant these?

    And I believe that something else needs to be bred in.. As obviously what they're trying isnt working. A 30% deaf rate (so pts rate) is way to high for the human race just to pleasure itself in seeing white spotty dogs running around.
    5 trainiers all with over 15 years experience have told me dalmatians are very difficult to train, not impossible but difficult in comparison to other breeds.
    Secondly that suggestion of instroducing another breed is quite hypocritical..... as it is not a pure breed then??
    There are so many deaf/partically deaf dallys being born because BAER testing is rescent.... they need to breed out the gene some how and as a spectator you should just accept that..... if you dont like it thats fine but your not understanding the lodgic behind the senario.... I was gutted... it was my future pup that was pts but for heavens sake im not paying $1400 for a deaf dog!! neither will anyone else and if they do... do are they also financial to support the ongoing "special" costs for the dog.. normal trainers cost an arm and a leg.. could you imagine a specialist trainer?? your wishful thinking is unrealistic and really quite immature.......

    It is the welfare of the breed not the pup... for the better of the breed the deformed pups need to be pts.... sorry to be blunt but you have no point.... unless you want to take them on yourself your argument has no back bone.
    Its not just about loving animals its about their future and the very real probibility that its not going to have a good one....ok cool some people will be successfull but im guessing 98% wont be...that is why they are pts and not given a chance because there is no real chance to give!!! your saying ok lets give the potential owner a chance, how would you feel 2 months later you find out that pup has been re-homed....then after that re-homed again oow and look at that no one could handle the pup it needs to be pts anyway.
    Last edited by Misschief; 11-03-2011 at 12:58 PM. Reason: addition

  3. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloz View Post
    Feel free to ignore the elephant in the room. Which is the fact that it is apparently totally acceptable to ignore the welfare of the pups because there is a demand for spotty Dalmatians.

    But aren't those crossbreed breeders just evil!
    Who exactly is ignoring the welfare of the pups?

  4. #164

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    <Hey guys try and keep any personal insults out of the thread, there's really no need for it.
    Beau>
    If you find yourself going through hell; Don't stay. Just keep on going.
    Beau.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelanBatty View Post
    Who exactly is ignoring the welfare of the pups?
    The breeders breeding them of course. There is no reason to allow that many deaf pups to be born. Other than the fact that people like their Dalmatians spotty and not patchy and everyone is obsessed with the purity of their genes.

    I couldn't give a stuff about the breed standard. A dog is a dog is a dog to me. If you know that their genes are faulty, stop breeding them or at the least do whatever is possible to breed out those genes in the fastest way possible, which is not what they are doing here.

  6. #166
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    I've been talking to breeders overseas, have contacted specialists doing research into the problem. Everyone is doing what they can, it's slow going but to stop now would be futile.

    I've posted links for people to read.

    I support all breeds and those that love and involve themselves in their chosen breed. I would no more want to shut down breeding Dalmatians than I would banning the PB.

    Each person has a right to their own opinion and so do the Dalmatian Club Breeders.

    Spots or splotches they've yet to prove either one means anything with deafness. But if it all stops now they'll never get to the bottom of it.

    I wouldn't think of owning many breeds for various reasons but I wouldn't suggest to people who love the breed to stop. Give it time and science will catch up with this and reputable breeders will take advantage of it.

  7. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloz View Post
    The breeders breeding them of course. There is no reason to allow that many deaf pups to be born. Other than the fact that people like their Dalmatians spotty and not patchy and everyone is obsessed with the purity of their genes.

    I couldn't give a stuff about the breed standard. A dog is a dog is a dog to me. If you know that their genes are faulty, stop breeding them or at the least do whatever is possible to breed out those genes in the fastest way possible, which is not what they are doing here.
    Umm that is exactly what they are doing.... They are trying to breed out the deafness the only way they can because they haven't found the genetic marker for it yet. So they are looking for it, researching it etc in a bid to solve the problem. They have to find the source first.

    You don't have a Dalmatian. From the sound of it, you don't want a Dalmatian because they aren't what you like. You don't have experience with the breed or breeding, you aren't a genetic scientist (or you would have explained it all by now) so other than bashing the breeders for trying to fix a problem in the random genetics of the breed and ensuring dogs don't suffer because of those same issues what is your problem?

    You're attacking the breeders for being responsible, yet if they sold the same dogs they'd be irresponsible because the pup would more than likely end up in pound or rescues then PTS. How can anyone win? Not to mention it's a defect in a puppy that you wouldn't take on yourself...

    As MAC has said, they haven't proven that the deafness comes from the spots or the splotches. I know I trust MAC's information a lot more than google. Better for something to come from the horses mouth so to speak.

  8. #168
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    Pretty sure I wasnt attacking you Misschief just the situation in general. I do not appreciate being called immature and I do believe I have a right to an opinion. If you do not agree with it and your only way to retaliate is to attack for no reason well that thats your own problem and maybe you should deal with that.

    Anyway. All breeds have to originate from somewhere right? So two 'purebreds' were bred way way wayyy back and something idealistic was formed so repeated breeding was done until a breed was formed and confirmed 'purebred'. All I was saying is that there is obviously a massive default in the dalmation gene, maybe from too much inbreeding, who knows. So maybe a reintroduction could fix it. I would rather have a mixed breed any day then a purebred with crap genes.

    However obviously what has been done to find the answer isnt enough or isnt working. Are there lines where there is no deafness?

    I dont know enough about it as has quite clearly been pointed out to me . However I dont think you need to be an expert to know that a 30% is extremely bad and suggests there is some fault with the breeds gene pool. I know I myself cannot justify breeding a breed for looks (which as theyre hardly used for sporting is what they're for) when 30% of the pups have to be pts.

  9. #169
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    I also trust what MAC has to say and I believe all that can be done at the moment is being done to try and sort this genetic problem.

    I also feel that as sad as it is that it is the right thing to do to PTS the deaf puppies.

    To look at it any other way is to let emotions, not facts rule.

    Of course though everyone is allowed their opinion.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  10. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keira & Phoenix View Post
    I just wanted to ask....

    How many of you on here have ever dealt with a completely deaf dog? .....Beloz? Choppa? BDL? Lala?

    Well I have. I rescued a completely deaf Staffy X ACD (BTW ACD are another breed who regularly are born deaf). She turned out to have separation anxiety compounded (and probably caused) by the fact that she was deaf, you couldn't leave her sight without her losing her sh*t because she couldn't hear you. She broke out of a crate and destroyed the inside of a vet clinic whilst staying there overnight. She was extremely hard to deal with, hard to train, hard to calm down and very very loud.

    She was transferred to rescue organization in NSW. The fosters who took her were well aware of the issues and were experienced with dealing with problem dogs, she went through 2 foster homes who couldn't deal with her until she landed with Chipps (a member of this forum) who had her for about a week when she found a potential forever home, she went on 2 week trial, they called a week in and said they would be keeping her, 2 weeks on from that they were not dealing with her and were struggling, she went back to Chipps, sadly she was aggressive with other dogs (another issue probably caused by her anxiety/deafness) and on Monday she was PTS. She was an unhappy, anxious, stressed dog who was put through constant change and instability because of her issues. Most of her issues would have been able to modified quickly (or probably wouldn't have even existed) if it had not been for her deafness.

    So as you can see even people who are well aware of a dogs situation and who think they can handle it often cannot, I won't even go into the actually time you need to dedicate to training, socialising and de-sensitizing a deaf dog, it takes an dedicated person with lots of spare time to give them what they need. This is how dogs end up passed around or in shelters. For a dog who is deaf that is an extremely stressful situation and their behaviour will deteriorate.

    It is all well and good for you to sit here with no experience with a deaf dog and say the dog should go to someone who is willing to take it but it is another thing altogether when you have experienced a deaf dog.
    Fair few probablies in there K&P.

    Yes I have had experience with a completely deaf dog. A cattle dog actually , papered at that.He went to my teenage son and they had a wonderful time. Many times you wouldnt of known he was deaf at all.

    But as I said before , that is NOT the point. And Ange maybe its because I am in rescue I find it hard to stomach this one , I'm certainly not a bleeding heart though. This is nothing at all similar to the Pits. The breed does not have such a very high genetic defect. To the point of most breeders are EXPECTING a deaf pup or two in the litter. With this type of deficiency they should not be being bred at all.

    By the handful I meant , if you can find any that is, dogs that have shown for at least 2 generations to have the defect under control , then continue breeding/research with those. There is obviously something 'right' going on there, its upto the breeders /researchers etc to find it. There always seems to be some expert or researcher for everything esle around here.
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