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Thread: Agression or Normal Behaviour?

  1. #31
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    Well Shelby, I have been around dogs all my life and either I am lucky enough to meet the best dogs and owners in the world or you have just met the worst. I am not sure what experiences you have had in regards to animals that has led you to have this view But its quite a sad one..

    Giving a dog permission to bite or intimidate someone because they did not ask you for the list of rules on how to approach it is umm.. I don't know, shocking! Shocking is saying the least of my thoughts on that statement.

    Ruby has no right, and will ever have the right to become aggressive
    because someone comes in and pats her. The fact that people, not just yourself, find it justifiable for a dog to attack or snap at someone is ridiculous!!

    If I thought she could have some erratic aggressive behavior I would not allow her in my house, near my children or near my VISITORS!!

    I have made a thread about my mums crazy aggressive dog.

    Just because she doesn't like being picked up or followed does not give her the right to be aggressive!!

    Giving a pet that right is asking for trouble and you very well might get it!
    Rubylisious


  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    If you are talking logic, which you personally brought into the equation, then your argument is invalid. It has nothing to do with me agreeing or not agreeing with the point.
    Explain how it is logical that because it's a friends dog, despite it being strange to you (you've never met it before) that it is ok to pat it when you yourself said general education says you don't pat strange dogs.
    Cheers Aleesha
    Lilly, OH & Boof ..... the 3 things that make life tick!

    All posts made under the name of "Shelby-001" are copywritten and may not be used in any publication or media without my prior written consent!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby-001 View Post
    The dog was 'strange' to them. They had never met it before.

    I did say in my entire post that 'strange' fogs shouldn't be patted. Just as you said in yours. Just because the dog belongs to a friend doesn't automatically make it 'known' as opposed to strange so the point is mute.
    No, it isn't mute and that is all because of the word 'expectation'. Most people do not expect a family dog to be aggressive, and if it is, they would normally be warned prior to contact... unless the owner was a sadist.

    I think the dog being a puppy also contributed to the fact that the visitors rushed the dog.

    I would be inclined to seek professional help for the dog. A 5 month old dog acting aggressive is not the ideal thing in my 'dog savvy' world.
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby-001 View Post
    Explain how it is logical that because it's a friends dog, despite it being strange to you (you've never met it before) that it is ok to pat it when you yourself said general education says you don't pat strange dogs.
    To save my fingers, read my points about education, conditioning of children, the domestication of dogs and no prior wanring given. Read also my point about the dog being a puppy.
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog_Lover View Post
    Well Shelby, I have been around dogs all my life and either I am lucky enough to meet the best dogs and owners in the world or you have just met the worst. I am not sure what experiences you have had in regards to animals that has led you to have this view But its quite a sad one..

    Giving a dog permission to bite or intimidate someone because they did not ask you for the list of rules on how to approach it is umm.. I don't know, shocking! Shocking is saying the least of my thoughts on that statement.

    Ruby has no right, and will ever have the right to become aggressive
    because someone comes in and pats her. The fact that people, not just yourself, find it justifiable for a dog to attack or snap at someone is ridiculous!!

    If I thought she could have some erratic aggressive behavior I would not allow her in my house, near my children or near my VISITORS!!

    I have made a thread about my mums crazy aggressive dog.

    Just because she doesn't like being picked up or followed does not give her the right to be aggressive!!

    Giving a pet that right is asking for trouble and you very well might get it!
    Ok I NEVER said it was ok for the dog to react like this, nor did I say that it should be accepted that the dog did react like it did. I would NEVER allow my dogs to react like this and they never have. I did say that given the dogs known history to be fearful/shy of strangers that it was NO SURPRISE that when rushed at and patted with no escape route that it did react this way. To me it seems it was a fear fueled response.

    Dogs will face situations they don't like all the time and need to be stable enough to not react this way. But that wasn't what was being discussed. It was the behaviour of the 'friends' that came into the property that was being discussed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    No, it isn't mute and that is all because of the word 'expectation'. Most people do not expect a family dog to be aggressive, and if it is, they would normally be warned prior to contact... unless the owner was a sadist.

    I think the dog being a puppy also contributed to the fact that the visitors rushed the dog.

    I would be inclined to seek professional help for the dog. A 5 month old dog acting aggressive is not the ideal thing in my 'dog savvy' world.
    I agree that help is needed for the dog if it is, as it would appear, it is that fearful of strangers that this is how it reacts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    To save my fingers, read my points about education, conditioning of children, the domestication of dogs and no prior wanring given. Read also my point about the dog being a puppy.
    Anne, it was a 'strange' dog to these people, therefor by your own explanation of education shouldn't be patted. They weren't children they were grown adults. Family dogs (therefore domesticated dogs) aren't generally considered to be aggressive I agree, BUT this is why 'strange' dogs aren't patted, as you simply DON'T know if they are or not.
    Cheers Aleesha
    Lilly, OH & Boof ..... the 3 things that make life tick!

    All posts made under the name of "Shelby-001" are copywritten and may not be used in any publication or media without my prior written consent!

  6. #36
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    Agression or Normal Behaviour
    Aggression IS most of the time perfectly normal behavior. Some dogs exhibit more, some less agressiveness - but it's in them all regardless of breed and size.

    Quote Originally Posted by tiff-689 View Post
    Anyway, they both came rushing in and proceeded to put there hands up to his face. He was backed into a corner and before i could say "just let him come to you" he had snapped and snarled at them. No biting but i was very shocked and so were they.
    Perfectly normal reaction. Some dogs are more reactive then others. In any case, people should learn that this is NOT the way to approach ANY dog.

    I like to think we socialised him a lot when he was little. When we first got him he was very shy, and took a while to warm to my brother and dad. The second time he met one of my OH's male friends, he barked at carried on at him for a good 5 minutes before settling. But he is now great with all of the above people. He is always very wary of strangers (especially males), but just needs to time to be allowed to approach them.
    Shyness can have genetic influence as well as environmental. Where did you get your pup from? From three weeks on is crucial for socialisation with people - first with people who raise them then with other people and dogs. However, some dogs are despite all the effort just shy and more reluctant. It's just the way they are. All you can do is keep socialising thropughout their lives with as much positive experience as possible.

    He is generally good with other dogs, just very dominant and excitable. Am just curious if this is normal type behaviour or something i need to get under control? I get a little worried taking him for walks because we pass so many people that always stop to try and pat him, and i can see he is very uncomfortable with this!
    What makes you think he's dominant? "Dominance" changes freequently with dogs he might meet in the park or walks. Actually, I persionally dislike the "D" word, but anyway... It creates lots of confusion and misleads owners more than anything else. I would continue to take him for walks near people, perhaps at first somewhere where there is not many people around. nd as soon as you see someone approaching tell them to stop, turn around and go about your way. However, maybe you should contact a certified professional to work with you and the dog on accepting people who approach. It can be done, but it takes time and lots of patience and of course a thorough knowlege of canine body language and awareness of our human language.

    I'd like to add one more thing. You know your dog is shy, so you should warn the people that come into your home about him and ask them to leave the dog alone and communicate only if and when the dog approaches them. Outside, you should be extra careful and observant and warn people before they try to pat the dog.

    I have a dog that is very wary of new people and yes, he will bite if approached inapropriatelly. The sad part is that he is so cute and tiny and irresistable to most, so sometimes I phisically have to stop people and remind them that they WILL get bitten. If you leave him alone and ignore him, he will come and sniff your legs, walk away and then later he'll be curious and brave enough to approach and seek attention. Then they can slowly let him sniff the hand and pat him, but again I have to warn them not to look at his face directly which people often tent to do - bend over the dog, talk a lot and extend teir arms a lot - very scary for a frightened dog. He's fine with kids though - he's very happy when they come and greets them cheerfully even if he never met them before - as long as they don't try to lift him which I never allow for any dog anyway.

    The point is - know your dog, respect the signs that he's sending and don't be shy to tell people in a polite manner to leave the dog alone. If they don't listen and they get bitten - it's really their problem, isn't it. I had a lady come over once (not relatet to me thankfully) who just refused to listen and got bitten FOUR f**in times!!!!! She tought it was cute and I sent her home pissed off because she ruined what I had achieved so far with him.
    Last edited by Fedra; 06-21-2011 at 08:34 PM.
    Respect and you shall be respected. Animal is always right.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog_Lover View Post
    Ruby has no right, and will ever have the right to become aggressive[/B] because someone comes in and pats her. The fact that people, not just yourself, find it justifiable for a dog to attack or snap at someone is ridiculous!!t!
    Oh, you should learn more about dogs sweetie. And yes, they DO have a right to behave like a dog just as much as you DO have rights to behave like a human. Dogs don't speak human, some are undersocialised, some are just shy by nature, some are traumatised, some get scared, some are bold and courageous and assertive. Dogs react like dogs and aggression is part of who they are. It's up to US to help them never or as little as possible to exhibit aggression - not by restricting, not by punishment, not by coercion, but by teaching them and trying to understand their behavior and what is causing certain behaviours. If you are not willing to do that - it's really really sad and you shouldn't call yourself "dog-lover" because love is so much more than having a dog in your house that you can pat and walk as you please.
    Respect and you shall be respected. Animal is always right.

  8. #38
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    Excellent thread.

    I probably would be more comfortable in bed with BDL and Anne but let me try and piece a few thoughts together from my reading thus far.

    1. The dog is 5 months old, so really not a dog at all, just a baby. Not many people associate puppies with aggression. I imagine if he was an adult, the "rush to crowd him" may not have happened. It goes without saying that humans would be more wary of a strange adult dog than a strange puppy.

    2. You dog has shown signs of this previously by taking a while to warm up to males. You should never have had him in this position to begin with. It is YOUR fault. It is not the dogs fault, nor the friends fault. Why should your friends automatically know not to pat the dog? If a dog is aggressive then it would generally be removed so rightfully when the dog is present it is assumed that the dog is fine. IMO you should have made sure to warn them he was shy and not to approach. YOU put your dog in a position where he felt like he had to defend himself.

    I am sure I had other stuff as well but reading the thread has made me forget some

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedra View Post
    Oh, you should learn more about dogs sweetie. And yes, they DO have a right to behave like a dog just as much as you DO have rights to behave like a human. Dogs don't speak human, some are undersocialised, some are just shy by nature, some are traumatised, some get scared, some are bold and courageous and assertive. Dogs react like dogs and aggression is part of who they are. It's up to US to help them never or as little as possible to exhibit aggression - not by restricting, not by punishment, not by coercion, but by teaching them and trying to understand their behavior and what is causing certain behaviours. If you are not willing to do that - it's really really sad and you shouldn't call yourself "dog-lover" because love is so much more than having a dog in your house that you can pat and walk as you please.

    I do agree with this post from the other side too.

    As humans we can/t expect dogs to suppress the only defences/communications they have. We snap when we are angry.

    However, it is our job as humans to help teach a dog to get along in a human world and where we can't do that, to protect the dog from situations it may not react well to (something that was not done in this case IMO)

  10. #40
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    We do not usually say "don't touch or it might bite your face off!" unless we want to instill some morbid fear into a child.
    It's funny - I meet children that will rush at my dog and try to hug her, no questions asked. And others who start screaming and burst into tears at the sight of her and the parents have no idea why - ie no dog trauma that they know of.

    But sometimes - it's the parents that are terrified of all dogs. After all that's what we mostly see in the news - another dog attack and mauled child. And they do pass that on to their children.

    So that would be why I always put my dog on lead when there are small children on the beach. Just in case the parents freak out.

    Pups aren't usually born with bite inhibition, so they bite more and harder with sharper teeth than any other dog (except attack dogs).

    It is up to us to protect our dogs from people and people from our dogs.

    The OP didn't know her friends were going to rush her dog. She might not have expected the reaction either. Sometimes we learn by getting it wrong. My whole day has been like that today. Sigh.

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