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Thread: Puppy Development Calendar

  1. #31
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    Mar 2009
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    Kurrajong / Hawkesbury
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    OCD in dogs.
    This is treatable. With a SSRI anti-depressant, given at 3 x the dose. The dose is built up gradually. It takes 3 wks of full dose, before you will see a change. Initially, you see sedation, but that dissappears after a couple of weeks.
    Once the dog is able to resist the compulsions to complete the behavioural loop its stuck in, training treatment can be added to consolidate the removal of the obsessed thinking and compulsion to repeat behaviours.
    K9: This is the theoretical plan, it works in a small percentage of true OCD cases.

    This is not just the case with dogs, but humans also, if you can chat with a person who has a professionally diagnosed OCD, they will tell you at best, management is their best friend.

    There often is no cure.

    Ive seen the worst case of OCD ever,
    K9: You mean of course, the worst case you have ever seen, not the worst case that has ever been seen.

    including human ocd in a dog. Who, 6 wks into treatment with said SSRI's, was completely released from his torment of chasing his tale to the detriment of his health. He would be triggerred in this behaviour by his shadow on the ground, he'd look around for what was causing the shadow, see his tale, then chase.
    FOR 15 hrs A DAY! Non stop, till the sun went down, and his shadow went away. Not stop to drink, eat, interact because he could not. And completely cured with SSRI's.
    K9: One dog (if it was cured) does not constitute a bankable treatment, no different really to the fact that some people take herbal medicines to cure cancer & it has worked.

    It isnt as simple now though as cancer can be cured with herbal medicine.
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Melbourne, australia
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    I have been using TOT on Bella for the last 12 months....ever since she bit the top of my finger off as I was trying to break up a fight between her and a foster pei (durrrrrrr) Not her fault about the finger, I simply got in the way.

    TOT changed her life (and mine)!!! 12 mths on we are so into the routine we no longer use the lead, but everything else still applies. We have a MUCH happier content dog who wouldn't dream of getting involved in a scrap as she is now very clear she is a pack member and not the pack leader.

    So many of our foster dogs are whipped into shape by TOT, from pups to mature's. Any issues at all and out comes the TOT plan, which we re-read and FOLLOW to the T every single time, because it is SO important to do TOT correctly.

    K9 Force and TOT has changed the life of many a foster pei in the last 12 months, from the dominants to the fearfuls, it works the same everytime, they all give in to the fact that we (OH & I) are the boss and they must listen and do what we require. In return, they get to relax in the knowledge that we are there to look out for them. The only one TOT doesn't work on is Noah, and that is simply because he is blind.

    So once again, from the bottom of my heart K9....THANK YOU!!!!!
    SPR fosters:Rowland, Matrix, Mia, Arizona, Romeo, Wrinkles, George, Molly, Su Lin, Ellie, Charlie, Charlotte, Lulu, Montana http://www.sharpeirescue.com.au

  3. #33
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    Jan 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shar Pei Rescue Victoria View Post
    I have been using TOT on Bella for the last 12 months....ever since she bit the top of my finger off as I was trying to break up a fight between her and a foster pei (durrrrrrr) Not her fault about the finger, I simply got in the way.
    Oh wow. Did you get it sewn back on or anything? I would hate it to happen to me

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Melbourne
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    Training in drive.
    Our neighbours have barking dogs and work all day from 6-6pm, the duration of which they bark for! It appears, that as we've had Bernie raised next to this fence, he's accustomed to the racket they make, and doesnt reply or pay it any attention. I hope this continues into his sexual maturity. I cant stand yappy dogs. And previous boy was a rottie, the strong silent type.
    Hey Bernie you don't live near me do you?! Upstairs neighbours are fans of sticking their dogs out on the balcony when they go away. Bloody things barked for 2 hours continually (with only occassional 1-2min breaks) last Thursday night. Mind you, they also seem to be fond of sticking them outside on the balcony when they are home and actually letting them bark. I'm very fortunate in that ours ignore them too. Have come very very close to going out on to our balcony and screaming SHUT UP at them but am pretty sure it won't work

  5. #35
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    Oct 2009
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    Perth, Western Australia
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    perhaps we should start again I think we've strayed the wrong way in our communications...


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jodz View Post
    Im glad i'm not the only one who saw "training in drive" as a bad idea..

    K9: Perhaps I missed it but, who said training in drive was a bad idea?

    The way you said it i took it as it was undesirable, My "problem" with it is getting her to stop. If i give her the toy then try and get her to 'swap' it with the food she wont do it, and then i have a 'tug of war' effect with her toy (which i refuse to play) but it comes down to when she gets "bored' of the toy more then when i say "my toy" . Does that clear that up?

    Quote:
    To be honest, at the moment I'm not soo much worried about what she does whilst we're at dog training, as thats more of a learning point for myself to then train her at home, so if she does 10 mins of training then gets bored (losses interest in food) well thats fine, i'll remember them and try them at home.>
    K9: Well you would be teaching her at training that food rewards are boring then, there will be no way to "get her interests up" if you train this way.

    Interesting.. See at the k9 school we attend they tell us treats are only temporary things and that if we can train without treats kudos to us as we're cutting out the middle man.. but slightly off topic,

    What i was trying to express is, we 'train' 3 times a day at home for 10 - 15 mins a pop, at the moment this is stuff we already know, but to keep it going (sit, drop, the illusive mytoy which is doing nothing and loose lead walking) so the training is consistent at home. When we are at k9school I've always taken that time as i guess in relation to Uni, you go, they teach you the basics do a quick example of it, and then you go and learn at home until you completely understand it, if theres something you dont get, the next week you go back and ask q's.. You have a different opinion? Im interested to hear seeing this is your field, i may be offending a lot of people without even knowing which isn't my intention !


    Quote:
    RE: socialisation and seeing how it goes, i feel i should clarrify.. both dogs were introduced by trainers not just myself a gf getting together with dogs off leash to see how it went! It was on leash for a 5 second meet, and on those 2 occasions the reaction was pretty quick.. Thankfully the staffy x and her came around in the end, but i would not ever leave the 2 of them alone together... There was tension when they first met and i dare say it wouldn't take a long time for it to come back either..
    K9: what do you think came of this "controlled meet"?

    They are better off not socialising with each other with novices like myself !And also that my GF would not make a good candidate (for lack of better word) to mind her whilst we were on holiday. Im not laying "blame" on either dog as to who had the issues, as just like people not all dogs are going to get along together..

    Quote:
    Something that interested me was when you said there are ways to help her socialise better when i said she plays with Rocco (lab x) and lets him win (hes the puppy) would you not see this as "cute" or normal behaviour?
    K9: No. I see this as practising an undesirable behaviour.

    Whys that? Real question i am learning here!

    Quote:
    (i say cute in the fact that she knows he's a puppy and isn't trying to dominate him?)
    K9: I am always amazed how people "know" what a dog thinks.

    fair enough, but a bit harsh in your reply. She would know he is a puppy. would she not due to smell, size and other dog features?


    Quote:
    I've taken her to the dog beach and she was fine with the other dogs being there etc.. I was a little reluctant to let her be "in the mix" with the other dogs and kept our area away from the dogs, but so far apart from the previously mentioned incidents so far so good.. Be curious to hear more from you on that
    K9: So far, so good?

    lol..

    Thats not the way I build programs for people, we cant have a fingers crossed strategy & "see what happens".

    What i mean by so far so good, as when we go to the beach we haven't had to deal with other dogs coming or having to socialise, that people were respecting the fact that i was deliberately staying away from the "crowd" and just allowing chloe to have a bit of a cool down.

    She is on leash when we are down there, and if we were confronted etc we would go home (as i haven't learnt enough about dog socilisation and only have forums to ask) To me, this would be like going to the park, theres always an owner who blvs their dog doesn't need a leash, especially around here..


    i hope that clears some stuff up? And we're back on a similar page or you can explain a little more so i can understand?

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kurrajong / Hawkesbury
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shar Pei Rescue Victoria View Post
    I have been using TOT on Bella for the last 12 months....ever since she bit the top of my finger off as I was trying to break up a fight between her and a foster pei (durrrrrrr) Not her fault about the finger, I simply got in the way.

    TOT changed her life (and mine)!!! 12 mths on we are so into the routine we no longer use the lead, but everything else still applies. We have a MUCH happier content dog who wouldn't dream of getting involved in a scrap as she is now very clear she is a pack member and not the pack leader.

    So many of our foster dogs are whipped into shape by TOT, from pups to mature's. Any issues at all and out comes the TOT plan, which we re-read and FOLLOW to the T every single time, because it is SO important to do TOT correctly.

    K9 Force and TOT has changed the life of many a foster pei in the last 12 months, from the dominants to the fearfuls, it works the same everytime, they all give in to the fact that we (OH & I) are the boss and they must listen and do what we require. In return, they get to relax in the knowledge that we are there to look out for them. The only one TOT doesn't work on is Noah, and that is simply because he is blind.

    So once again, from the bottom of my heart K9....THANK YOU!!!!!
    K9: Your very welcome! What can be a great idea to is, if you send us an email, we can send you the TOT & some otehr simple programs to give to the people you adpot dogs from you, just to keep the momentum going!
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kurrajong / Hawkesbury
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jodz View Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jodz View Post
    Im glad i'm not the only one who saw "training in drive" as a bad idea..

    K9: Perhaps I missed it but, who said training in drive was a bad idea?

    The way you said it i took it as it was undesirable, My "problem" with it is getting her to stop. If i give her the toy then try and get her to 'swap' it with the food she wont do it, and then i have a 'tug of war' effect with her toy (which i refuse to play) but it comes down to when she gets "bored' of the toy more then when i say "my toy" . Does that clear that up?
    K9: yep thanks, the reason this happens is that you dont have a program that is complete, so there are no "rules of engagement" for your dog, so its the fastest & strongest wins.

    This is training using the dogs drive but without structure, it wont be beneficial.

    Quote:
    To be honest, at the moment I'm not soo much worried about what she does whilst we're at dog training, as thats more of a learning point for myself to then train her at home, so if she does 10 mins of training then gets bored (losses interest in food) well thats fine, i'll remember them and try them at home.>
    K9: Well you would be teaching her at training that food rewards are boring then, there will be no way to "get her interests up" if you train this way.

    [B]Interesting.. See at the k9 school we attend they tell us treats are only temporary things and that if we can train without treats kudos to us as we're cutting out the middle man.. but slightly off topic,
    K9: I don't know where you go but, if that is their General rule for all dogs then its wrong in my opinion. It will produce a dog with a lack lustre performance.

    What i was trying to express is, we 'train' 3 times a day at home for 10 - 15 mins a pop, at the moment this is stuff we already know, but to keep it going (sit, drop, the illusive mytoy which is doing nothing and loose lead walking) so the training is consistent at home. When we are at k9school I've always taken that time as i guess in relation to Uni, you go, they teach you the basics do a quick example of it, and then you go and learn at home until you completely understand it, if theres something you dont get, the next week you go back and ask q's.. You have a different opinion?
    K9: I dont group train so it isnt the same but that method is ok but it has its flaws.

    If you think your doing it right you dont go back & ask questions, that doesnt mean your doing it the way they intended. This can lead to problems like the game your playing with your dog. The intention is there but the technique and structure isnt.

    Quote:
    RE: socialisation and seeing how it goes, i feel i should clarrify.. both dogs were introduced by trainers not just myself a gf getting together with dogs off leash to see how it went! It was on leash for a 5 second meet, and on those 2 occasions the reaction was pretty quick.. Thankfully the staffy x and her came around in the end, but i would not ever leave the 2 of them alone together... There was tension when they first met and i dare say it wouldn't take a long time for it to come back either..
    K9: what do you think came of this "controlled meet"?

    [B]They are better off not socialising with each other with novices like myself !
    K9: Ok. I wonder what the dogs made of it.

    Quote:
    Something that interested me was when you said there are ways to help her socialise better when i said she plays with Rocco (lab x) and lets him win (hes the puppy) would you not see this as "cute" or normal behaviour?
    K9: No. I see this as practising an undesirable behaviour.

    Whys that? Real question i am learning here!
    K9: What do you think is desirable about it?

    Quote:
    (i say cute in the fact that she knows he's a puppy and isn't trying to dominate him?)
    K9: I am always amazed how people "know" what a dog thinks.

    fair enough, but a bit harsh in your reply. She would know he is a puppy. would she not due to smell, size and other dog features?
    K9: She wont know what a puppy is, she doesnt understand age, birth or the fact the puppy is a puppy. So she plays in a way that will keep the game going, thats why she lets him win.


    Quote:
    I've taken her to the dog beach and she was fine with the other dogs being there etc.. I was a little reluctant to let her be "in the mix" with the other dogs and kept our area away from the dogs, but so far apart from the previously mentioned incidents so far so good.. Be curious to hear more from you on that
    K9: So far, so good?

    lol..

    Thats not the way I build programs for people, we cant have a fingers crossed strategy & "see what happens".

    What i mean by so far so good, as when we go to the beach we haven't had to deal with other dogs coming or having to socialise, that people were respecting the fact that i was deliberately staying away from the "crowd" and just allowing chloe to have a bit of a cool down.


    K9: that's good, not all people do this unfortunately so you do have to be careful.

    She is on leash when we are down there, and if we were confronted etc we would go home (as i haven't learnt enough about dog socilisation and only have forums to ask) To me, this would be like going to the park, theres always an owner who blvs their dog doesn't need a leash, especially around here..
    K9: I think there is always an owner who believes that, everywhere...

    The problem remains though that, if you take your dog anywhere, & something happens, going home after that event doesn't remove the psychological damage that may have occurred.

    It is like as soon as it starts, you may be too late.
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    melbourne australia
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    I am at last able to purchase Training in Drive DVD from K9.
    (things have been rather tight financially lately)

    I sincerely believe, that drive is essential for training. The difference in Bernie's 'sunday sits', compared to i have your toy, you want your toy, and you'll offer a sit to get it, happens in a nano second.

    I have your toy, you will heal and pay attention to me, and when i say its done, we get to do what you wanted to do all along, PLAY WITH YOUR TOY.

    He's more focussed in achieving what he is driven to achieve. Which currently happens to be, play with my toy.

    Just from doing the T.O.T. thing with food. My dog knows a sit, a sit stay, drop and drop stay, retrieve, being tied out without moaning about it,
    From feeding him. twice a day, for months. Same exercise, mixed up a tad with the routine, and voila! trained dog "accidently". Though not so accidently at all. It simply is, the best strart to training i have ever given a dog.

    I cant wait for the DVD to arrive. And continue this training method, that is rock solid as far as i can tell.

    We've also been attending the training classes weekly.
    Last week, we took the training to pet expo. He's so focussed, he doesnt even get that there is a lama stood next to him, or a chicken at his feet or a piglett squeeling by his side. He WANTS HIS TOY! lol

    happy training.
    Bernie

  9. #39
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    Dec 2009
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    melbourne australia
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    I have been reading about something called Endurance Training. Our club runs it twice a year. Bascially, its a marathon for dogs. Over 20ks or something, and 3 different types of terrain surface. Your dog has to run alongside you on the bike without pulling or coming a cropper. With Vet exams along the way to ensure the dog is not coming to harm. As the trainer, you can drop dead of a heat attack, they dont provide the dr.

    Now, im too old to be cycling 20ks, my dog is too young at 6 months to be running anywhere near that distance. However, what are people thoughts on training him to do this, over a very short distance of 1k.

    I would ride my bike with previous dog. I live in the country, this would not be on a road. But a track along side fields etc.

    Can a 6 month pup be expected to run for a 1k?

    Off leash, he'll walk 7 easily. But obviously can speed up, slow down, sniff, rest along the way. Whereas on the leash, he'd have to run.

    My other concern, i dont want a dog, that takes a massively long run just to tire it out. This would be a different way to 'walk' the dog. Im not that fit. Nor is my dog as he's a pup.
    Bernie

  10. #40

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    Nice article Steve.. I print it so i can read it !
    Regard's Tim

    Breeder of whippets

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