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Thread: We All Love to Share Pet Shop Puppy Prices...

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lala View Post
    No need to apologise....doesn't bother me.

    I grew up with a border collie from good working lines and she could definitely be a bit silly, or "mental" is probably a better term for it, at times.

    LLike I think I said earlier, I personally have absolutely no problem with cross breeding. Even if it is just to make something cute and fashionable. My only problem comes from people doing it irresponsibly and creating little genetic timebombs, or angry little dogs, or not proving after adoption care/advice.

    If they are doing all that then they can breed whatever they like IMO.

    But totally understand that you would be offended if BCs are your breed and that is the example I used.
    A silly or mental BC would then not be bred from further. Unfortunately this is not always the case. It takes a lot of assessment to breed a really good dog. Good breeders have done a lot of assessment and anything with a poor temperament, no matter on its other attributes is not used.

    Trouble is by breeding something fashionable, how do you know you are not creating a time bomb. Breeding a silly, mental BC to a Sibe and then back to a cross - you could end up with anything.

  2. #32
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    Oh totally....I would asume anyone breeding dogs worth their salt would be doing the relevant research etc but really, breeding a crossbreed is not much different to breeding a purebred I wouldn't think except you are going to be a bit less sure of the result, particularly in the first generation cross.

    How do you know you are not creating a genetic timebomb when breeding something fashiomnable?

    How do you know you are not creating a genetic timebomb when breeding something purebred?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lala View Post
    Oh totally....I would asume anyone breeding dogs worth their salt would be doing the relevant research etc but really, breeding a crossbreed is not much different to breeding a purebred I wouldn't think except you are going to be a bit less sure of the result, particularly in the first generation cross.

    How do you know you are not creating a genetic timebomb when breeding something fashiomnable?

    How do you know you are not creating a genetic timebomb when breeding something purebred?
    Anyone worth their salt breeding a purebred should know a heck of a lot about the previous generations. Good breeders can use line breeding very effectively to chase the very best attributes, but again you need to know what you are doing.

    Breeding crosbreed to crossbreed is like russian roulette.

    With a crossbred going back to a crossbred, the range of genetic variation is very big. My mums dog is the result of a labradoodle to a labradoodle and the litter ranged from something that looked almost pure lab to pure poodle. The size range, coat colour and temperaments were very variable.

    I agree when breeding anything for fashion whether it be purebred or crossbreed then you are going to have to be very carefull what you create!

    Like breeding for merles - can only be done safely by not breeding merle to merle.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    Anyone worth their salt breeding a purebred should know a heck of a lot about the previous generations. Good breeders can use line breeding very effectively to chase the very best attributes, but again you need to know what you are doing.

    Breeding crosbreed to crossbreed is like russian roulette.

    With a crossbred going back to a crossbred, the range of genetic variation is very big. My mums dog is the result of a labradoodle to a labradoodle and the litter ranged from something that looked almost pure lab to pure poodle. The size range, coat colour and temperaments were very variable.

    I agree when breeding anything for fashion whether it be purebred or crossbreed then you are going to have to be very carefull what you create!

    Like breeding for merles - can only be done safely by not breeding merle to merle.

    I wish the poeple breeding some of the purebreds out there knew 1/2 of what they should know. I am forever astunded by some breeders general lack of basic understanding of genetics & total misunderstanding of how certain genetic faults are passed on.
    You can not set type in 1 off crossbreedings & to do it at all takes more than 1 kennel of dogs. but it can be done.
    But on the otherside of the coin is it so bad to have a diverse litter. You know many landraise dogs have very varied litters. The Tibetan Mastiff is a good example of a dog that can have a huge range of size & some type differences also in a litter. As more are breeding to a breed standard(or their inturpration of it anyway) this is being fazed out & soon we will have the TM's all looking the same also. I am not sure how I feel about that as in their country of orgin the different type pups had different purposes & where each praised for their individual strenghs. In 1 litter they may have been able to produce 1 or 2 huge camp guardain dogs, a few livestock guardains(a leaner more agile but still very large dog) & a caravan traveling dog or 2(the smaller finer types that could travel without tiring) & they where proud of that. Should we have the right to change that? Plus I love my really big TM's but have also had a more shepard type & he was just as specail & it will be sad to never see his type again.
    Just all food for thought really as I am not sure how I feel about alot of it.
    Dogs make everyday life enjoyable...........

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    Anyone worth their salt breeding a purebred should know a heck of a lot about the previous generations. Good breeders can use line breeding very effectively to chase the very best attributes, but again you need to know what you are doing.

    Breeding crosbreed to crossbreed is like russian roulette.

    With a crossbred going back to a crossbred, the range of genetic variation is very big. My mums dog is the result of a labradoodle to a labradoodle and the litter ranged from something that looked almost pure lab to pure poodle. The size range, coat colour and temperaments were very variable.

    I agree when breeding anything for fashion whether it be purebred or crossbreed then you are going to have to be very carefull what you create!

    Like breeding for merles - can only be done safely by not breeding merle to merle.
    Again, I agree with what you are saying but if you have been multigenerationally crossing then you would also know the previous generations (obviously once they were widespread enough to be able to mate unrelated lines).

    Personally, I think there is a risk with breeding pure and cross.

    I agree with CD in that some purebred breeders don't knwo what they should too.

    I also have to say, it is bloody great to be able to talk about it and state your views etc without someone getting all pissy and anal (usually a purebred breeder LOL).

    Don't get me wrong either though, I am not saying everyone should jump out an dbreed crosses or anything like that. I just myself do not have a problem with it when doen responsibly. IMO breeding any dog is going to be a risk...however, they were doing it for hundreds (thousands?) of years before we cam ealong without too much trouble lol

    I thin if we left them to it, you would end up with a single breed eventually with virtualy no genetic issues LOL

  6. #36
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    I totally agree about the lack of understanding in many breeders. I think that is starting to show up across the board. I think that is three quarters of the problem regardless of if it is cross or purebred.

    Lack of understanding of how genetics works, breeding for fashion, and breeding for ridiculous reasons. Cant be good. Crossbreeding has its role but people dont understand that role or how to use it.

    As to breeding to a comformation standard, as the owner of working dogs that work that is not somethiong that interests me, particularly if that standard has started to become warped as it has in some purebreds.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 01-15-2011 at 11:00 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lala View Post
    I thin if we left them to it, you would end up with a single breed eventually with virtualy no genetic issues LOL
    Mitochondrial DNA shows that all dogs are descendents of the Grey Wolf. It took humans to manipulate the inherent genetic diveristy of the wolf to get what we have today and without our help they would go back to what was going to result in their survival.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    I totally agree about the lack of understanding in many breeders. I think that is starting to show up across the board. I think that is three quarters of the problem regardless of if it is cross or purebred.

    Lack of understanding of how genetics works, breeding for fashion, and breeding for ridiculous reasons. Cant be good. Crossbreeding has its role but people dont understand that role or how to use it.

    As to breeding to a comformation standard, as the owner of working dogs that work that is not somethiong that interests me, particularly if that standard has started to become warped as it has in some purebreds.
    Very very true that many miss the total concept of cross breeding & so are out there breeding for fashion & dollars & giving all who xbreed a bad name in the process.
    I think if more breed for ability to do their given job(even if that is a household pet) & less for looks & colours our dogs would be alot healther & happier.
    I find it hard to swallow when showdog breeders say how bad disigner x's are as it's all about fashion as so is their lastest imp bloodline, a fashion to breed for extreme type & size or lack of it. Not saying there isn't respondsable showies out there but for many they breed & buy guided by what type is winning at that time & give little thought to the on going genrtic diverstity of the breed or wether the new disired look brings with it genetic pitfalls.
    Dogs make everyday life enjoyable...........

  9. #39
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    Funnily enough in researching the cross bred I own, Border Collie cross Golden Retriever, i found that there are actually Search and Rescue people in the USA and UK breeding her cross for SAR. they have bred known SAR pure-bred dogs of the two breed to breed other potential SAR dogs and have done so successfully.
    And I have to admit that the dog we presently own is the most calm, obedient and trainable dog I have ever owned. She however was a "mistake" and not all her litter-mates have been well trained. All breeds once started somewhere. But I suppose the reason fro breeding is the important factor. the SAR people are doing it with a plan in mind. And are seeking a result...... There is also a huge following of "coltrievers" in the UK and NZ as both Obedience dogs and in NZ as Guide dogs. it will be interesting to follow this "cross with a purpose" and see what happens in the future, definitely not a designer breed, even though they are pretty.
    Some of the more recent cross breed gone to pure breed is the "Flat Coat Retriever"


    Coltriever crossbreeds
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  10. #40

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    Well I hope they don't create another disaster. Wally Conron the guy who bred the Lab x Poodle for a purpose has stated he regretted it.

    In the last two weeks we have seen 2 Samoyed cross Goldie.
    Once the farmers see a market, that's it.

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