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Thread: Independant Streak

  1. #1

    Default Independant Streak

    My pup (9 weeks old) has shown some good signs during training and he is starting to try and guess what I want him to do so he can win a treat.I have him on a NILF program.

    He learnt to sit and come in 1 day and after the first week I had him sitting,staying and coming when called approx 90% of the time. I've started teaching him to heel this week and he does that quite well about 50-70% of the time.
    This a seriously food motivated dog.

    He learnt within a week not to come to me when I want him to come inside ( I've been going to him rather than call him when I know he wont come) also I don't want to seem to punish him for coming by taking him inside.

    Hyacinth recommended a "really reliable recall" and he comes to that 100% of the time as quick as a flash, but I don't want to use that to get him inside. Is it OK to get him inside with that method or should I keep that associated with "super happy puppy time" ?

    We don't have a crate so we have a kiddy gate to keep him in the laundry and that is where he spends a lot of his inside time which is a major contributing factor in his reluctance to come in.
    I've tried food rewards to get him to come in but he gets near the door and decides to stay away regardless.
    Also he seems to know when the treats are on and will do almost anything he's asked but without the treats he couldn't care less and goes about his business almost like we're not there.
    To me he seems very intelligent and I don't want to do anything to stifle his problem solving skills.
    I've started to give him access to the loungeroom which he loves and I've been trying to break the habit of him not wanting to come in with that, by taking him directly to the loungeroom.
    Should I start mixing it up a bit by not giving treats all the time to keep him guessing or has anyone got any advice for dealing with an independant pup?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    12,581

    Default

    Hi Bundy

    My dog likes to be with me. So when I want to shut the back door so she can't get inside (or outside), I tell her "in or out" and she usually comes in at high speed because I shut the door if she doesn't start coming immediately - and she HATES that.

    If she doesn't come - it often means she wants to do a 5hitnapiss first. Which is ok but I still shut the door. I then set a timer for five to ten minutes and repeat the process - open the door "in or out" and if she comes - she's with me.

    I reckon if you want him in so you can go out, consider going and getting him early like 10 minutes before you want to go, and also feeding him a little bit of something he really likes (ham?) when he does go in the laundry.

    Do look up crate training and work it the same way. Susan Garrett has a really cool video on how to get your dog to like the crate or laundry - though laundries are harder for a dog to like. Cold - damp - isolated - noisy (hard surfaces).

    Also you can practice getting him to come inside when you call and then let him go straight out again ie call him and don't put him in the laundry. Every time you give him a treat - practice grabbing his collar, give treat, and let go collar... so he gets used to the hand movement that goes with grabbing the collar and doesn't automatically duck and run (like my dog did when she was a puppy).

    And yes you can mix up how often the treats are given, although praise and play should happen every time. But until you have the recall reliable - ie he comes no matter what, I'd keep using treats.

    There is such a thing as generalizing - ie a dog learns your command but has to learn again in each new place and with each new distraction. Ie a great sit at home, will not be a great sit at the beach with loads of distractions like other dogs and balls and cool smells to check out and seagulls to chase and water to play in and small children to scare.

  3. #3

    Default

    This is clearly not working for my dog.
    Now he will only very rarely do anything I want without being offered a bribe.
    When there is food on offer he turns into a compliant willing dog that will do anything I want, but without the food nothing.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bundybear View Post
    This is clearly not working for my dog.
    Now he will only very rarely do anything I want without being offered a bribe.
    When there is food on offer he turns into a compliant willing dog that will do anything I want, but without the food nothing.
    I have seen this with a few dogs but instead of working for a treat everytime you need to get them to work for a chance of getting that treat. So I never reward with a treat everytime & will mix it up with rewarding with play or a toy or just a simple good dog. The dog will work on a jack pot system & realize I don't get food treated everytime but if I do the right thing enough time I will get that food treat. Untill he gets the jackpot treat system maybe put him back on a lead whilst asking anything of him. A lot of getting the behavour you want is just not letting the negitive behavour happen & the more they do the right thing the more it becomes the natural thing to do.
    Also I would never at this stage take him straight to the laundry as you where saying let him spend time in the lounge first everytime. I would also let him stay in the house for longer periods of time(whilst ever he behaves) without going into the laundry at all so it break the assocation of coming inside meaning being locked in the laundry.
    I would not just reley on any 1 method(I use NILF method among others, although I did not know thats what it was called till recently) & I would read up on as many different training methods & take what works for you & your dog.

  5. #5

    Default

    Thanks Crazydog
    That really affirms what I've been thinking.
    I suppose I'll just have to find some more creative ways to get his attention.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    12,581

    Default

    That would be NILIF ie has a second I ie
    Nothing
    In
    Life
    Is
    Free

    just in case you wanted to google for it...

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    That would be NILIF ie has a second I ie
    Nothing
    In
    Life
    Is
    Free

    just in case you wanted to google for it...
    sorry if I mucked the letters up, I am not good at fixing grammar, spelling etc before I press send, lol.
    But I know what it is I read all the info you put up before & as I have said heaps of times, really I have always naturally used a identical method of working for food & reward & nothing for free without ever knowing it was someones training meathod. Since hearing about it from you or someone here I have read up on it alot actully.
    Why do I feel like your being sarcastic to me?? If I have it wrong I aploagize but really saying in case you want to google it to me or the op when we are both talking about the method so obvisualy know about it(wether we misplaced the acrom letters or not) is sounding a little like your saying stop talking **** & look up the method. Sorry but I just feel a little put down by it & again if I have your intentions wrong I'm sorry in advance.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    2,388

    Default

    Crazydog, dont worry about it. Dont let yourself be offended easily....

  9. #9

    Default

    I actually thought that the post about NILIF was directed towards my post. I got the acronym wrong first in my original post.
    I didn't take any offence to it as I didn't see it as sarcastic or derogatory, I just thought Hyacinth was steering me on the right track.
    I never seen Hyacinth post anything that's meant to offend, just helpful advice, so I can't see that as any different.

    Text communications are devoid of feeling and are easy to take out of context, maybe that's all that has happened here ?

  10. #10

    Default

    Most likely & me being way too touchy, sorry Hyacinth.

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