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Thread: ARGH! Why Has Everything Gone Backwards???

  1. #11
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    I also do want to add that he is mostly Kelpies and having had Kelpies for years they are extremely active and extremely smart. They also need to be able to work independently and think independently, it is what they were bred for.

    When they are working well away from their handlers thay are not waiting for commands and signals they have to figure out what to do now, anticipate.

    If you think that busy working ability is not in the show Kelpie then let me tell you a little story.

    While traveling to Brisbane Royal we stopped to give the dogs a toilet break. We pulled into this property just behind these massive impressive gates, you know the ones that sort of said I'm not a struggling farmer.
    The house was no where in sight but because they had good fences we thought it would be a good place to give the dogs a run with no risk of being near the highway. We made a cuppa then turned and saw an entire mob of very expensive looking marino sheep being driven towards us by our RUBISS black kelpie bitch. Well what happened next must have looked like something out of a comedy skit, we threw our cups etc into the boot, called all dogs in, shoved them into the trailer, called Matilda in off the sheep shoved her in the trailer and in a blaze of dust drove out of there so fast for fear that an irate farmer would be after us for running the meat of his sheep or damaging their fine wool. We never took that liberty again.
    Last edited by mouseandchicken; 01-27-2010 at 10:28 AM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouseandchicken View Post
    I also do want to add that he is mostly Kelpies and having had Kelpies for years they are extremely active and extremely smart. They also need to be able to work independently and think independently, it is what they were bred for.

    When they are working well away from their handlers that are not waiting for commands and signals they have to figure out what to do now.

    If you think that busy working ability is not in the show Kelpie then let me tell you a little story.

    While traveling to Brisbane Royal we stopped to give the dogs a toilet break. We pulled into this property just behind these massive impressive gates, you know the ones that sort of said I'm not a struggling farmer.
    The house was no where in sight but because they had good fences we thought it would be a good place to give the dogs a run with no risk of being near the highway. We made a cuppa then turned and saw an entire mob of very expensive looking marino sheep being driven towards us by our RUBISS black kelpie bitch. Well what happened next must have looked like something out of a comedy skit, we threw our cups etc into the boot, called all dogs in, shoved them into the trailer, called Matilda in off the sheep shoved her in the trailer and in a blaze of dust drove out of there so fast for fear that an irate farmer would be after us for running the meat of his sheep or damaging their fine wool. We never took that liberty again.


    That would have been a HILARIOUS sight!!!

  3. #13
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    Hahahahhahahahahhahahahahhaaahahahaha. Farmer Di's belly laugh.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  4. #14
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    PMSL@MAC's Rubiss! They'll round up anything, even ants if they're bored enough. Lol.

    Angela, I get confused going back and forth between pages, so will ramble on here and hope I hit some of the things you're dealing with. Forgive me if I miss anything.

    1) DVD's. Dogs are Houndini's. Lol. Who knows how the DVD's got down to a level he could get them. Unfortunately for your husband they did, so it's bad but, it's one of those things.
    What I do when I have a pup chewing on something I don't want him to chew on, I will NOT walk straight up, take him from him and say no immeidately. I will race off FIRST, grab HIS chew toy, race back, THEN I will say a firm 'dog's name NO CHEW!' and remove the item. Immediately give him HIS chew toy. When he starts on that, give a pat and praise good boy etc. Sounds like that's what you're doing which is great - just remember everything takes time, and the thing that works best is always 100% consistency by all members of the household.

    I have no idea I'm sorry what Cleas' food circuit is, so can't comment on it. Have you actually done any training yet in correct recall? Calling a dog to you in the hope he comes is pointless. Unless you are in a situation where you can ensure he comes every time, yeah, you can go backwards.
    I am a massive advocate of teaching total recall in the old-fashioned way. Nothing works better IMO in the long run. Can you spare 10 minutes per day to do recall training? Got a long string line or similar?

    Your pup is so young. He is being very normal. And believe me, they are great compared to kids who have just started being able to crawl, walk etc.

    You will get through this stage, and it will be very worthwhile. Why do you think so many puppies get on-sold and sent to shelters etc - ppl really have no idea what is involved until they experience it, and for some, it is just too hard, too much to deal with. That is NOT you, and you are doing a great job.

    WHY are you doing NILIF with a 13 week old pup?????????????????????????

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela's Gone Batty View Post
    Much thank you



    I honestly have no idea about babies and what it's like to bring them home.

    It's very hard for me to explain, the connection is there some times and not there other times. It's like he gets the devil in him and just wants to run amok.

    DA: Love and lead him, and the bond will grow. He is very young.



    Books have already been packed into a box and gone into the storage room.



    I definitely am very grateful for this!

    1) How have you been dealing with his separation anxiety, please?

    Randomly removing myself from his company starting at about 10 mins, only coming back in when it's quiet. Going out the front door to check the mail and staying out longer than I need to until he is quiet for a couple of minutes and then coming in and ignoring him when I'm in there until he lays down and starts to relax (usually he does a BIG sigh) then I calmly call him over to me if I want to give him a pat, otherwise I let him fall asleep. I use NILIF for everything and use TOT at feeding time as well - he's great at the TOT as well! Already working without the tether.

    2) How have you been teaching Batty recall - coming on command etc?

    Using both Clea's food circuit method and randomly calling him during the day and heavily praising him when he comes to me. I don't always have treats on me but if I don't he gets a little game and lots of praise.

    Problem - WHEN he comes to me. What do you do on the occasions he doesn't, as I'm sure there are occasions he simply ignores you? This is what I am talking about in my previous post. He must be taught recall in a way that ENSURES and controls that he comes to you every time.

    3) How have you been trying to teach him to stay off the couches?

    When he jumps at them or jumps on them he is told Off, if he's on the couches he is placed on the ground onto his mat. Later I intend to teach him he's allowed if he's invited, but I don't want that yet until he understands he can't just jump on them because he wants to.

    DA: be forceful. make sure your 'no' or 'off' is serious. Leave him in no doubt that you are not happy with that action. Follow up by getting him to come to you, sit beside the lounge, praise etc. He will learn to associate that priase with sitting beside lounge, not jumping all over it.
    4) The DVDs. Your fault, or whoever left them out. I have puppy proofed my house. Last night my son just chucked his jandals down on the lounge floor. Now he KNOWS to put them away. Inca got one. OH took it off her, then rightly so chastised our son for leaving them there in the first place. Are you understanding at all? It is like a baby. Once they are crawling, if they put things into their mouths they shouldn't that is MY FAULT.

    The DVD's were up on top of the entertainment unit (we have an old style one with a window for the TV and a shelf above it) well out of his reach. I honestly have no idea how he got them the only thing I can come up with is the NDN's cat has knocked them when he's gotten indoors, but I can't for the life of me think when he could have done that. It's driving me mental. I know it's not his fault and it is my fault, it was more of a "oh crud, gotta explain that to hubby now...". That shelf is at about my ear height and I'm 5'4".

    Talk to you after you have realyed answers to my questions. Take a deep breath BTW - it does get easier!
    Done. I do know it does get better, just very very frustrated. I had been thinking that I'm doing the right thing by him, that I'm doing the right things to combat the seperation anxiety and that I'm encouraging him in the right way. Just this morning has made me doubt everything.



    He's 13.5 weeks old. My friends have kids aged between 4 and 19, except one who has a daughter (my god-daughter) and she's not even one yet. All I've seen are the toddlers chucking a tanty in the supermarket, which is when I get my butt to the opposite end of the store to stay as far away as possible. I have heard the horror stories though so I do kind of understand.[/QUOTE]

    I'm bloody hopeless with all this quoting stuff and how to do it!

  6. #16
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    Guys, WTH is TOT???

  7. #17
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    I wasn't laughing at the time but we did later. We had a saying after that, "how do you like your Kelpie? shaken, not stirred" Because when I say we drove out of those fancy gates at great speed I was not joking.

    It's just that I really didn't expect there to be a mob of sheep just over the rise.

    I have so many funny stories of showing and trialling dogs up and down the east coast of Aust. Good friends, good dogs, good wins. One day I may write them all down.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate View Post
    PMSL@MAC's Rubiss! They'll round up anything, even ants if they're bored enough. Lol.

    Angela, I get confused going back and forth between pages, so will ramble on here and hope I hit some of the things you're dealing with. Forgive me if I miss anything.

    1) DVD's. Dogs are Houndini's. Lol. Who knows how the DVD's got down to a level he could get them. Unfortunately for your husband they did, so it's bad but, it's one of those things.
    What I do when I have a pup chewing on something I don't want him to chew on, I will NOT walk straight up, take him from him and say no immeidately. I will race off FIRST, grab HIS chew toy, race back, THEN I will say a firm 'dog's name NO CHEW!' and remove the item. Immediately give him HIS chew toy. When he starts on that, give a pat and praise good boy etc. Sounds like that's what you're doing which is great - just remember everything takes time, and the thing that works best is always 100% consistency by all members of the household.

    There are chews and toys on shelves throughout the house so I can do just this. Although I just say no, should I be saying something like no chew?

    I have no idea I'm sorry what Cleas' food circuit is, so can't comment on it. Have you actually done any training yet in correct recall? Calling a dog to you in the hope he comes is pointless. Unless you are in a situation where you can ensure he comes every time, yeah, you can go backwards.

    The food circuit is to have treats on hand, throw a treat out then call puppy back to you and treat the puppy for coming back (using "Batty, Come". I also do this with toys - teaching fetch .

    I am a massive advocate of teaching total recall in the old-fashioned way. Nothing works better IMO in the long run. Can you spare 10 minutes per day to do recall training? Got a long string line or similar?

    I have a 9ft long leash that I use when we're outside. When I say I was calling him and he was running away, I wasn't saying come I was saying "Batty Looky Here", trying to give him a bone and he was running away - I didn't explain that properly, I do know not to try come unless I know he's going to come straight to me. Looky Here is what I've always said to him before giving him a bone or chicken neck/wing etc

    Your pup is so young. He is being very normal. And believe me, they are great compared to kids who have just started being able to crawl, walk etc.

    You will get through this stage, and it will be very worthwhile. Why do you think so many puppies get on-sold and sent to shelters etc - ppl really have no idea what is involved until they experience it, and for some, it is just too hard, too much to deal with. That is NOT you, and you are doing a great job.

    WHY are you doing NILIF with a 13 week old pup?????????????????????????
    There is no way I'm giving up, and I do know it's just a bad day. I just wasn't expecting a day to be quite this bad. Won't be making that mistake again!

    I thought I was supposed to? I ask him to sit before I give him a new toy (or old one on rotation), ask him to sit for a pat etc. Sit is the first thing he learnt and I didn't start asking for him to sit before getting a toy or lots of pats until he knew what it was - He understood sit in one day and I didn't start for another week, after practising with him to make sure that he understood. I'll stop if I'm doing the wrong thing. I started asking for a sit before pats because he was jumping up and I didn't want him to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate View Post
    Guys, WTH is TOT???
    It's the Triangle of Temptation thing from K9 Force - I've only been using it to get him to wait for his dinner, he was rude and snappy with it when he first got here so I did this to stop him snapping at my hands when he had the dinner bowl around him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate View Post
    I'm bloody hopeless with all this quoting stuff and how to do it!
    LOL I had to edit to fix it the first time! This time I was a bit lazy though...

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouseandchicken View Post
    Chill! He's being a regular puppy, excited, silly at times and getting braver.

    They are not robots and even when we do all the things we are meant to do they will still do all the things that puppies are meant to do. By following guidelines and I say guidelines for a reason eg not greeting first thing with enthusiasm doesn't mean we will absolutely end up with a dog that doesn't fret when left alone, but it does mean that you will lesson the chances of having a dog that will be a basket case when left alone.

    If your not used to having a puppy take it easy on yourself. Puppies are naughty, delightful, cheeky little bundles of joy.
    Will do, thank you. Yup check on all 4 parts...

    Quote Originally Posted by GreysAreGreat View Post
    AGB I too thought "terrible two's" as Clea suggested. I will admit I try to avoid having puppies so have little or no experience, but maybe Batty is starting to go through that "challenging" phase, by that I mean challenges your authority.

    It sounds like you are doing a great job with him, but don't get so over zealous in his training that YOU forget to RELAX - dogs pick up on our moods so easily, if you are stressed then he will pick up on it. I know that when I get like that I notice that my lot get a bit naughty. Yes I will tell them off, but end up telling myself off more! Once I relax and calm down and get over whatever it is that is getting up my nose the gang also calm down.

    Off Topic - DA - "jandals"! I don't hear that expression much here teehee.
    Ok, I will relax a bit and try to work out what's wrong, I think I may have woken up on the wrong side of the bed and woken up the inner ratbag that has been laying dormant...

    Quote Originally Posted by Di_dee1 View Post
    OK, about less than 2 weeks older than my lot and DA's.
    THEY ARE TURDS AT THIS AGE, well, four together are. Do not expect what books tell you, every dog is different and will mature at different stages. (just bringing kids into it again, my daughter in law went by the book first kid, went nuts if he didn't have some achievement bang on the time the book said so, second kid, she would refer to the book occasionally if she was troubled, third, she hasn't looked at it, fourth on the way and there is a garrage sale soon)

    Moral of the story, books are a guide and an addition to your gut head and head feel. WE have to look around at their level to see what they can get into, 'cause they will. They will not at times want to obey us, so they won't. Bandit today would not come inside from a wee no matter how I called, lay in the shade looking at me. I got the treats he loves, opened the package so he could see and hear and stood back as he shot inside like lightning.
    LOL Naughty Bandit! How is his eye doing?

    I can see what you mean about the books. I've already put them away, now working on clearing my head a bit. I'm going to sit down this afternoon and work out how the rules are going to go and how they will be implemented and show hubby as well. He's always been brilliant with the fosters so this shouldn't be too hard for him, plus he's out of the house for around 11 hours a day anyway!

    Quote Originally Posted by mouseandchicken View Post
    I also do want to add that he is mostly Kelpies and having had Kelpies for years they are extremely active and extremely smart. They also need to be able to work independently and think independently, it is what they were bred for.

    When they are working well away from their handlers thay are not waiting for commands and signals they have to figure out what to do now, anticipate.

    If you think that busy working ability is not in the show Kelpie then let me tell you a little story.

    While traveling to Brisbane Royal we stopped to give the dogs a toilet break. We pulled into this property just behind these massive impressive gates, you know the ones that sort of said I'm not a struggling farmer.
    The house was no where in sight but because they had good fences we thought it would be a good place to give the dogs a run with no risk of being near the highway. We made a cuppa then turned and saw an entire mob of very expensive looking marino sheep being driven towards us by our RUBISS black kelpie bitch. Well what happened next must have looked like something out of a comedy skit, we threw our cups etc into the boot, called all dogs in, shoved them into the trailer, called Matilda in off the sheep shoved her in the trailer and in a blaze of dust drove out of there so fast for fear that an irate farmer would be after us for running the meat of his sheep or damaging their fine wool. We never took that liberty again.
    I wish I could have seen that! What an amazing girl she must have been!

  10. #20
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    Chew and toys on shelves and in places around the house is spot on Angela! Good thinking, so you get grab something wherever you are. Inca has one chew toy, a stuffed tiger, and she is literally obsessed with it. Reminds me of Lionel in Charlie Brown with his blankee.

    Thanks for explaining the food circuit training you have been using. I know it, but just don't use treats when teaching it - I use humans instead. Same thing, though. Works well.

    Got NFI about K9's Triangle of Temptation. Lol. I just always teach my dogs to sit before a meal is placed on the ground, and to wait until the command to 'eat' or 'ok' (depending what you prefer) is given. Not only is it convenient and good manners, it is something my father always taught me as a child because he had dogs that were trained to only eat food given to them BY HIM on HIS command.

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