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Thread: Another 'Bonnie' Problem.

  1. #11
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    Don't I know it she picked up a dead tree frog today - it was mummified. I know this is shallow, but I couldn't touch her mouth until she had had a drink. Thanks for the training tip though I will be sure to try it first thing tomorrow. You know, you have been the most helpful person on this forum to me. I am extremely grateful for it.

  2. #12
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    Perhaps it would be prudent to wear a glove. After all, this is only the 2nd time she will be 'offered' a real bone.

    The most loving, affectionate and gentle dog can change when given a bone. As you have seen when you give Bonnie her usual food each day, she doesn't behave like this normally, so I wouldn't tend to think she is truly displaying food aggression as such.

    Bones are sacred in their eyes! Lol.

    Just use your instinct, and as always with this sort of problem - be careful.

  3. #13
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    I don't know if what I do in this situation is the right thing, but I thought maybe it wouldn't hurt?

    With Batty, when he first got a bone, I walked past and he growled and snarled at me. I stomped my foot (away from him) growled back, said no and took the bone away for an hour. Then I gave it back to him and sat down with him in the puppy pen patting him while he ate it. I didn't try taking it off him this time but I did have some warm roast chicken with me and whenever I put my hand near his mouth I gave him a little. Now he sees me coming and stops what he's doing to give me what he has in the hope that I'll give him some chicken LOL. If he growls at me when he has anything (and it's not just in play) he gets the same thing, he is told no, I make a loud noise and take away whatever it is that he is growling about for an hour and do the same thing as above with him.

    If someone could tell me if I'm doing something wrong with the above that'd be great! It seems to be working though and it means he's dropping things he shouldn't have too LOL

  4. #14
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    Bones are high value for dogs, ranking well above the average meal of biscuits.

    I believe that if she hadn't been in a crate (cornered) she probably would have picked up her bone and moved away from you. Because there was no way out she gave you good warning to back off.

    Do I understand that you also have another dog? I often find that dogs in multi dog homes need to be more protective of their food. It's not an excuse.

    If it was me next time I gave her a bone I would get some raw meat and as you approach her offer her a tit-bit of raw meat, just slowly toss it into the crate to her. Do this several times without touching either her or the bone. When she stops growling, then progress further, give a pce of meat and a pat - repeat several times, give a pce of meat and touch bone - repeat several times.

    I would also probably do this with her tethered rather than cornered. Draw her out to the end of her tether and start the training there that way if she does lunge at you, you can step back without her being able to follow thru.

  5. #15
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    If the bone is smooth all the way through - it suggests to me that somehow it's not a real bone. I would never give my dog smoked anything, let alone a bone and I've stopped giving her dried roo bones - because she makes splinters out of them. And we've had problems with a previous dog and minced chicken carcasses - the fine powdery bone stuff in that caused blockage in her gut. Not fun.

    Regards the resource guarding. Frosty doesn't do it. She's never done it, I can take anything away from her and give it back or not as I choose. I can even reach down her mouth and pull stuff out that she shouldn't be eating. If she's grabbed it while on lead. When she's off lead it takes a little bit more work but can be still done with a lure of greater value to her.

    Do teach your dog "leave it" or "give" for let go of what you've got. I use "thank you" when we're playing "fetch" and "leave it" when she's got something she shouldn't have like strapping tape.

    What DA said about you holding the bone might be good. You will probably have to separate the puppy and yourself from Leo. Otherwise, you can try approach a little bit and leave and approach a little more and leave repeatedly until she gets the idea that you don't do anything but this may also re-inforce to her that growling makes you leave. Maybe don't leave until she stops growling.

    It's not a problem I have though. I can't let Frosty eat any bones, not even raw beef shin bones because she makes splinters out of them and swallows those and then chucks it up or has trouble at the other end.

  6. #16
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    With Jodi, yep, she growls with a bone. Now she lets me take it. She is 11 weeks. I will keep re-enforcing that now and then but as far as I am concerned she gets her bone in peace to do what she wants with it for as long as she wants.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  7. #17
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    I would see this as needing sorting.
    And i see the sorting as pretty easy.
    Your cooked bone, is highly prized, more so than those crap raw hide things you've been feeding him/her, this one is tasty!
    So he'd gaurd it more.
    I believe you can try to help the dog give this behaviour up.
    By offerring him some other titbit, whilst you pick it up,
    walk around with it.
    The minute he's not being aggressive, praise, and give it back.

    This is a direct challenge to you. He wants the bone. You are alpha. You decide. Stop trying to be your dogs mate, sibling, your the Alpha, aloof, haughty, indulgent sometimes, fair, just, protective. Take the sodding bone off him. If you cant, then do some leadership work with him. Start over again, from the beginning, sit, come, down, stay, wait for food, look up K9;s Triangle of Temptation article. Read that. He'll be fine with letting you have the food out of his mouth soon.
    bernie

  8. #18
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    hey Striker, how are things going? You have been given lots of good advice on here. Personally I agree with MAC's suggestion. Very good.

    Under no circumstances walk away if Bonnie has growled at you!

    I also do not think this is a challenge to you from Bonnie. I believe you have come a long way with her, and have been great in gaining leadership status with her.

    Another idea is to feed her raw food from your hand. I'm not sure Striker what sort of diet you have Bonnie on, but let's say you have a nice piece of raw chicken; a quarter, or a wing etc. Allow Bonnie to start chewing at the chicken piece, while it is firmly in your grasp. Believe me, this will help. Not only that, it is how I teach dogs to chew that are known to gulp their food, vomit and all that from never learning how to chew.
    Good luck.

  9. #19
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    Whoa - there are a lot of recent posts. Regarding the two dogs thing, the other one is ridiculously timid/submissive - she would give up her bone to Bonnie in a flash. And Bonnie would take it. She's getting better with the bone, but still growls. Whenever I try to take it away, I am terrified she's going to do a real number on my hand, and I am sure she can feel it. So I tried something else - I tied her puppy leash (one of those really thin light ones) to the bone. She doesn't care that it is there. Usually it is not when I pat her anymore, but when my hand goes near her mouth or I kneel down. So as soon as she growls, the bone is pulled away from her mouth (quite quickly - If I do it slowly, she growls and snarls a lot and tries to play tug of war [but not play, if you know what I mean]). I definitely do not walk away or back off if she growls - I growl right back at her till she backs down. You would not believe the success I have had with her through this method. Also, I read in another training book to act as if the bone is yours (i.e. to eat). It said you are supposed to squat down with the bone, and put it in front of you with the dog there. If the dog tries to eat the bone or grab it, you growl at it. I tried this, and she backed right off, all submissive poses. This is a big leap with her, I think she respects me as leader in all respects a little more now. Also I tried Devil's Advocate's trick - holding the bone while letting her eat some. She didn't growl once, so I have advanced with her in this area (as opposed to when I first gave her a bone, I walked past her pen and patted her, all snarls and bared teeth.) The only reason I want to train her is because if I have to take away the bone, I can. Also I have a brother who is a sucker for collies and will always pat her whenever he sees her - he will forget about the 'bone thing', and then it may get a little nasty from there on.

    As far as taking the bone away goes, I want to, but I have a mental fear that she's going to bite me badly while I try to take it. Unless maybe I do it fast. But I know this for a fact: Her bite is worse than my bark.

    P.s. Yes, kids are a constant presence, and yes we do have another dog, albeit she is incredibly submissive. Also, Bonnie's situation is probably worsened by the fact that she gets an all dry diet (Iams Puppy). She is fed away from the other dog in a pen (otherwise she would run and eat Lou's food too), so they have never really run into food problems with each other.

    - Mouseandchicken - She only growls if I am very close to her or touching her head/mouth. She no longer growls at my presence, or touching her back.

    - Hyacinth- The bone most definitely is real, I examined it closely recently and it has all those gross ball and socket type joints, etc. As it is smoked, it has a flaky surface, but she has mostly chewed this off.

    Note: Also, if I keep touching her while she is eating it, she doesn't mind, but if I leaver her for five minutes or so, then she growls (a bit).

  10. #20
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    Striker, you are doing sooo well!

    The 'eating' of the bone is agreat way to do it, BTW. If I have a dog or pup that is finicky or off it's food for whatever reason, I do the same thing, except I really do eat it.
    I've done this since a child apparently, constantly preferring raw meat to cooked if I can get away with it, so for me, it's not a problem, as my dogs have always eaten human grade quality meat.

    Yes, yes, all werewolf jokes aside. Lol.

    If you are seen to be eating the food FIRST, that may make a HUGE difference to Bonnie.
    Keep up with the feeding her chicken pieces etc or even big chunks of meat from your hand. It WILL help.

    Yep, Bonnie will sense your fear of being bitten on your hand a mile away. So you really think she will bite, I can see that.
    When you approach Bonnie to 'take' the bone from her, do you look at her in her eye and hold eye contact until she looks down or breaks contact, or do you glance at her and look away quickly?

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