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Thread: Border Collie Puppy Problems.

  1. #11
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    Place your thumb and 'pointer' finger just behind the jaw and apply firm pressure. Give an stern "NO". Hold for a few more seconds then let go.
    I only ever 'tapped' my dogs as a 'punishment'. When I knew for a fact that THEY knew they were doing the wrong thing.
    For example, Lady snatched food out of my hand and bit me on th way. I gave a stern "Agghhh NO" and tapped. I then held it out again and she took it gently.
    Education not Legislation

  2. #12
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    Tapping on nose doesn't work.

    It really doesn't work with cattle dogs who play that game with cattle ie the steer kicks and dog ducks and goes back in for more - excellent fun for dog, not much fun for you.

    Belting dog on nose does work but not in the way you want - ie it just makes the dog frightened of you and your hand.

    She's in play mode. She just wants your attention. When she does something you don't want - take your attention and your presence (if necessary) away. Most dogs in play will match their force (hardness of bites) to yours - so the harder you tap, the harder she will bite/play. Tapping on nose may initiate play mode with a farm dog. Oops.

    You can also try in combination with ignoring the dog - a nice loud high pitched yip. To get the idea of how that might sound - pay attention to the noise the puppy makes if her tail gets stepped on accidentally, or the older dog gives her a strong correction. Make a similar noise and turn your back on puppy and count to ten. Long enough for puppy to notice you're not playing any more. If that doesn't work. Leave the room and shut the puppy out. Do not return until puppy is quiet / doing what you want.

    Older dogs stop younger dogs by going completely over the top with an aggressive warning growl and charge. And if that doesn't work then the growl is backed up with a very hard nip, that is clearly beyond play but not hard enough to do damage. And not usually on the nose. Usually on the bum of retreating puppy.

    You may also want to learn about crate training (google) as sometimes it is more convenient to isolate the dog than yourself - eg when you're trying to make dinner.

    If she's snarling and biting and hurting the other dog (or another person), you want to distract her with something else - walk between her and the object of her attentiong with a nice high pitched "bab bab bab" noise (as recommended by Victoria Stillwell).

    Squirty bottle corrections are good, as are distractions - like thowing a squeaker toy nearby. Pay attention to what you do when she's naughty. Are you rewarding her with attention like she wants? My dog Frosty does a whole bunch of things she knows gets my attention. Like ripping up her bed in the office. I try to make getting my attention by doing things I don't want not rewarding for her, ie she gets just a little bit more attention than she really wants or she gets time out or I leave her (she likes to be with me or know where I am).

    When I'm out, she doesn't do any of these naughty things - because there is no reward in it for her. I know some dogs will rip things up for the sheer pleasure of it, but for some reason Frosty doesn't. And I'm grateful for that. So is my furniture.

    If your BC puppy is seeking your attention more than you can handle - maybe she needs more walks or training. You could practice getting her doing what you want like 30 second sit / stays. Or a bit of fetch to wear her out a bit more / encourage sleeping. Pay attention to what she likes and remove or give to get what you want. It might be toy, attention, training. Most BC are looking for you to give them something to do - so start with training her to do what you want...

    And every dog is different in terms of what they want, and what drives them. So when you have it figured for one dog, the next dog is completely different.

    So I find with Frosty who has been by far and away the most difficult dog I have ever tried to train. And serves me right - I did seek an independent thinker. She's not often interested in food. She often thinks she doesn't need to go on lead when I want her to. She likes to keep me in sight so I hide when she's naughty on the park... works brilliantly. And she loves tug, so I use that often as a reward. Especially when she goes back on lead. The whole lead rope is a tug toy. She also likes to play chasey - but I only play when she is "it" and chases me - never the other way round for obvious reasons.

  3. #13
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    May 2009
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    hi guys sorry for the delay

    These posts have helped quite a bit, but she still does it (although to a lesser extent). I have stopped the nose tapping thing completely, and I am trying the scruff trick currently. I am quite sure it is a dominance thing and not play anymore, because she really gives me a dirty look - bared teeth, snarls and yips, and if she can get to my hand, biting (not really hard though). I can't look her in the eye because she is too busy trying to bite my hand (which is usually holding her scruff). If I stand up and turn around/walk away, she will follow me, and the aggressive show stops, but it worries and upsets me that she even does it in the first place. If she gets really bad, then I put her in her night pen for half an hour, then come back and see if she is going to be nice. Like I said in a previous post, she doesn't display any other 'dominant' behavior - she doesn't try and control me, she isn't protective of her food, etc. I don't think she is bored, as she gets played with/trained for most of the day, with a walk to an off leash park at 6. Yesterday we took her down to the park and ran around with her for two hours, and practically had to carry her back because she was so tired. Yet we got up the back, I knelt down to pat our older dog and she rammed into her,, growling while pulling her ear. I said a very loud "NO" to Bonnie, shook her scruff, and the whole business started again. I just don't want her to grow into an aggressive dog....

  4. #14
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    Hi Striker.

    IMO she already is growing into an aggressive dog. It's not a case of not wanting her to start, it's a case of stopping what has already started.

  5. #15
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    Well how do I stop it!?!?!?! I don't know if I sound in denial or what, but she's not aggressive in other aspects...

  6. #16
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    No I don't think you're in denial at all, Striker. Hugs to you. You have come here with this problem, haven't you? That's not the action of a person in denial in the first place.

    Ok, you've just mentioned that if you stand up and walk away, the aggressive behaviour stops, right?
    What do YOU do when she stops????

  7. #17
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    have you tried the boss grip.???
    You hold the dogs muzzle as if muzzling - a firm grip but not too hard - and continue to do so until the dog relaxes and then let go... As Di Dee said this is what mum does when pups are out of line... Chances are she will struggle a lot when you first do this... Do NOT let go until she is calm... if you do let go when she is struggling she will have a win and make it harder the next time around.

    I would also be using NILIF and other methods to get your leadership back with her....
    Dogs Aren't Our Whole Lives, But They Make Our Lives Whole


  8. #18
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    When she stops, I pat her and tell her she's a good girl. Then she usually rolls over for a tummy rub and everything comes back to normal. Unfortunately, she does pick on our older dog a bit, who's naturally quiet/timid/submissive. I might credit Bonnie with the fact that she is not aggressive with Lou, but she does go over the top with playtime. Sometimes Lou has had enough, and she will bite Bonnie, and then Bonnie will go away and play with something else.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netty View Post
    have you tried the boss grip.???
    You hold the dogs muzzle as if muzzling - a firm grip but not too hard - and continue to do so until the dog relaxes and then let go... As Di Dee said this is what mum does when pups are out of line... Chances are she will struggle a lot when you first do this... Do NOT let go until she is calm... if you do let go when she is struggling she will have a win and make it harder the next time around.

    I would also be using NILIF and other methods to get your leadership back with her....
    The nose grip I have tried, it does work, but yeah, she does try and paw at my hand/growls turn into surprised whines. What's a NILIF?

  10. #20
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    Lou will be fine. The bite is obviously enough to let Bonnie know when enough is enough, and what will or won't be tolerated.

    That is where you have to be, in Lou's shoes.

    Stop patting her and telling her she's a good girl. It is possible that your timing is 'out', and you may be reinforcing her idea that it's okay.
    As soon as she portrays her unacceptable (and it is totally unacceptable) behaviour, be VERY forceful, Striker. No pissing about the bush, so to speak. You are the Master/Leader/Boss, whatever you call yourself etc...
    Tell her "NO!" in no uncertain terms. Stalk away from her. Only when she can approach you and you are able to pat her, or whatever, and she stays calm without any aggression, then give her lots of praise. Even treats if you give treats for good behaviour.
    Does that make sense to you?

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