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Thread: Should Soft Mouthing Be Discouraged?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Floyd View Post
    Well said Occy..

    I don't like Caesar Milan & or he's use of electric collars at all, IMO there is no need to train a dog using pain,surely there are much better ways to train animals without inflicting pain on them. Omg i so would luv to put an elec collar on he's man bits & zap him every time he opens he's mouth or moves
    I agree with that...I don't like electric collars either. I don't think I have seen an episode where he uses one...hmmmm...I have seen him use his special Illusion collar though. I have seen him use an electric tracking system (GPS) with a dog that kept running away. No...I don't think there is any need for zapping our dogs. However...people use invisible dog fences that will "zap" your dog if it gets close to the fence line...what are the differences between electric collar and those fences?

    You know what...I think I agree with Occy too. It states at the beginning of the episodes not to do the techniques without consulting a professional...so what is the point of the show if we can not use the techniques? I never thought of it that way...thanks for enlightening me!

    I am interested though in your thoughts Deb and Occy...apart from his use of electric collars...what techniques that Cesar use amounts to cruelty in your eyes?
    Last edited by Cleasanta; 11-11-2009 at 12:04 PM.

  2. #22

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    I actually teach absolutely NO TEETH whatsoever.
    Now having said that though,I often play with Loppy where she does use teeth,but she is extremely soft mouthed.If she tends to get over excited a simple 'Gentle!" is enough to calm things down again.She also knows that I am the only one she can put teeth on.


    I like Ceasar.
    I dont agree with some of his methods but the basis of his knwledge is sound.And I have very much respect for someone who can run a pack of dog aggressive dogs ( by nature) together.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChoppaChop View Post
    I like Ceasar.
    I dont agree with some of his methods but the basis of his knwledge is sound.And I have very much respect for someone who can run a pack of dog aggressive dogs ( by nature) together.
    I second that. You can't agree with everything people do, but I think the basics of his psychology/methods are spot on.

  4. #24
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    I dislike Cesar's manner, I much prefer Victoria for how she works. I also dislike this idea of running an aggressive pack of dogs together. Everyone is ever so amazed by it, but again, I ask - where are the outtakes? And then there is story of a dog being injured under his care - electrocuted I believe.

    I also don't think one strategy manages all cases and he seems to just stick to his few basic ones that work for ALL.

    My biggest gripe is this whole - don't try this at home kids - part of it.

    The stuff Victoria does doesn't have the potential to hurt dogs, what Cesar does, does!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan View Post
    My almost 10 week old pup has started soft mouthing the passed couple of days. Is this something that should be discouraged like his harder mouthing or is it acceptable because he's not actually biting down?

    TIA
    Hi Megan

    Mouthing is NOT acceptable whatever the temperament of the dog. It can lead to biting later on. It should be disscouraged from day dot. If you ask any behaviourist he will say that it is still considered biting.

    The reason I say this is beacuse we had a behavourist come to our place about 2 weeks ago and I explained that Diesel was mouthing me and he said def disscourage it, it is biting.
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  6. #26
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    I have found the info in this thread very interesting. Kuro is right into using his mouth ( very softly ) in play, but also seems to have a need to always carry something/anything in his mouth just for the sake of it.. I will print out the excellent post by Cleasanta so we can all read it..

    Thanks everyone.. This is something I have been wondering about and how best to handle it...

    Cheers
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occy View Post
    [COLOR="Blue"]And then there is story of a dog being injured under his care - electrocuted I believe.

    I also don't think one strategy manages all cases and he seems to just stick to his few basic ones that work for ALL.

    My biggest gripe is this whole - don't try this at home kids - part of it.

    The stuff Victoria does doesn't have the potential to hurt dogs, what Cesar does, does!
    And then there is story of a dog being injured under his care - electrocuted I believe...please show evidence of this story!

    I also don't think one strategy manages all cases and he seems to just stick to his few basic ones that work for ALL...Cesar uses a lot of different techniques. It depends if he is dealing with "red zone" cases...anxiety...fear aggression...fear of loud noises etc etc. He works on creating balance in the dog's life.

    My biggest gripe is this whole - don't try this at home kids - part of it....show me where it states that Victoria Stilwell encourages people to do her techniques WITHOUT consulting a professional!

    The stuff Victoria does doesn't have the potential to hurt dogs, what Cesar does, does!...and still she is one of the trainers that were mentioned that the Delta Society doesn't like for her training methods (sorry, can't find the bloody article given to me by Delta trainer)!

    I am just wondering...you also don't like for the fact he has a TV show and is obviously making money from it. How is that any different with Victoria Stilwell and her "It's me or the dog"?

  8. #28
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    This is an intersting thread. I think I'll just keep popping in here to learn about this Milan.

  9. #29
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    Hi Megan

    I wouldn't encourage it either. I used several variations, the yelp - which worked sometimes - great, and not at all other times - eek. The growl - which worked more often. I mostly used a verbal warning in combination with distraction, substitution ie give the puppy something else to bite - quick. Or stand up and turn back and ignore, as long as biting did not transfer to the backs of my legs - in which case it was time out. One of us would depart to another room and shut the door, count to ten and return. Repeat as necessary.

    When Frosty got really obnoxious, biting etc. Often meant she needed to go outside for toilet. Don't ignore or punish this.

    I tried the slap on the nose thing - that I was taught back in the 70s - and Really Bad Idea, got one hand shy dog who still nipped but with the classic blue heeler - nip and duck away before the steer kicks you.

    Sometimes I grab gently across the bridge of her nose - like a noseband, and let go when she does. Sometimes I grab her tongue (do this for licking too), or if she has hold of my hand, gently push it further into her gob until she tries to spit it out of her own accord then I take my hand out. This is much more effective than trying to rip hand away - which invokes a chase-grab-repeat bite response.

    Essentially - I try to take the fun out of play biting, mouthing. I'm not too worried if she bites me, but I really don't want her to think it's ok to bite humans generally. She's quite good at matching the bite level to the dog/person she's playing with. If you play rough, she plays rough. So I don't play rough.

    I have some issues where she occasionally misses the rope toy and gets me. And that hurts, but I go through all the Yelp, ignore, be boring stuff, so she learns that it's not ok to grab the rope toy on or near my hand. Even if it's my fault for moving the toy, I expect her to be more careful.

    Try different methods, use what works, always do something to take the fun out of it.

  10. #30
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    Most puppies grow out of this stage when adult teeth come thru but just in case I don't tolerate the touch of dogs teeth on my skin at all. It ends any game very quickly.

    I always recommend all play with puppy involves a toy. If he accidently gets your hand, I give the OWW like another puppy would if things got too rough, if puppy takes no notice of this the game is over. Put toy up come back 20 seconds later and try again.

    If excitement level increases too far it's time for "time out" which isn't as horrible as it sounds, just remove yourself from puppy by putting puppy outside or you coming in and closing puppy out.

    Give puppy good quality chew toy to break in new teeth.

    Currently having a litter of 9 x 8wk old whippets means we practice this a
    lot and all feedback from new owners from previous litters has been good.

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