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Thread: What is a BYB? and What Everyone Should Know About It.

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minibulls mum View Post
    Those crossing the IW 's are possibly trying to save the breed, not familiar with them so cannot say, but if gene pools are allowed to drop too low some breeds will die out, they can be rescued by a proper program which may have to include crossing.
    For anyone who is interested, I've started a new thread about crossing Irish Wolfhounds... rather than hijack this thread

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minibulls mum View Post
    Many working sheep, cattle, and pig dogs are crosses, reason for that is that in pig dogs in particular most of the pure breeds are not up to doing the job, with the sheep and cattle dogs some are pure but more by chance than design, most graziers don't care weather a dog is pure or not, only that it is up to doing the job, no one out where I live buys working dogs from show alone kennels but will buy from working dog kennels, who may be members of the working dog registry, these breeders work their dogs, only a very few of these also show them, this has nothing to do with the designer craze, but does illustrate that crossing can have a place and can not be said to be all bad.
    .
    As the owner of a farm and working dogs, nobody here that wants a working dog will buy a showbred dog. The working breeders here do not breed showline dogs, their dogs are either registered on working registers or registered with for example with the Working Kelpie Council, which is where my kelpie is registered. These dog are ineligble to be registered on the main ANKC registers and nor would you want them to be. This does not mean they are not purebreds. My kelpie and BC both have long pedigrees and are purebred, but not showbred.

    There is the occassional accidental crossing but mainly the working breeders stick to their breeds and the working BCs and Kelpies are usually pure. This again is for the reason of knowing the ancestory of each dog and the attributes of its lineage and health issues if any. A top line working dog from proven and known ancestory and lineage will bring many thousands of dollars a crossbred not. Individual farmers may cross dogs to breed what they are looking for and shoot what doesnt work but the working breeders that I know dont. If you are looking for a top dog you will look at the proven lines with known charateristics. These dogs are all purebred dogs many with long pedigrees but they are not ANKC pedigrees.

    A working dog of unknown parentage can be registered on a working register on its merrit and can be included in a breeding program but generally the breeders stick within their breeds. Most working dogs around here are either purebred working kelpies or Border collies.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 12-02-2010 at 11:38 PM.

  3. #73
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    Thanks for that KC I have only a rather hazy knowledge of the working registries, so find your post very interesting, possibly because I am no longer on the land in any big way I am out of touch with things as they are now, as a younger person in our area there were few who had dogs of known linage mainly due to isolation I guess, certain dogs would gain a reputation in their area and neighbours would be keen to use those dogs regardless of the breed of their bitch as long as it was their best worker they would breed to the good dog.

    Or a drover with an exceptional dog would scatter litters as he went from one area to another, thus many good lines existed but without proper paperwork kept.

    It is interesting that the public gets to think ANKC breeds only to better the breed, it is in their rules, it is sad that this is not always the case, no doubt why the working registries exist and are so respected.



    As to dumpage rates AusieMF , we should study Holland, they do not desex dogs unless they have a medical reason to, yet they have extremely low dumpage rates per head of population compared to us, I suspect that it has a lot to do with educating people, you apparently need to do a course of some sort to become a dog owner over there, if it works for them perhaps we need to find out more about what they are doing and follow their lead, our methods are not working, it is owners who dump dogs after all not breeders, trying to stop breeding will not change people as owners, if owners had to be more responsible there would be A less demand for pups, and B they would not be dumping their dogs.

    Breeders do not breed what they cannot sell, make it harder to own a dog and there will be fewer, but more responsible owners, and thus fewer dumped

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minibulls mum View Post
    Thanks for that KC I have only a rather hazy knowledge of the working registries, so find your post very interesting, possibly because I am no longer on the land in any big way I am out of touch with things as they are now, as a younger person in our area there were few who had dogs of known linage mainly due to isolation I guess, certain dogs would gain a reputation in their area and neighbours would be keen to use those dogs regardless of the breed of their bitch as long as it was their best worker they would breed to the good dog.

    Or a drover with an exceptional dog would scatter litters as he went from one area to another, thus many good lines existed but without proper paperwork kept.

    Breeders do not breed what they cannot sell, make it harder to own a dog and there will be fewer, but more responsible owners, and thus fewer dumped
    Yes I think that farm breeding of working dogs has gone on for generations. The Australian Koolie, kelpie and cattle dogs all come from mix and match breeding.

    The difference back then was there was a very high cull rate, so only the best survived and morphed into breeds once the sought after characteristics became more reliably heritable. What didnt work out was quickly dispatched and that still happens today.

    Working dog breeders however will keep their breeds and lines pure to make sure certain qualities remain heritable and become features of certain lines.

    As to the Dutch and Scandanavian model of making it hard to breed dogs. Germany is the same - you can only breed dogs if you have gone through lots of hoops that are rigourously enforced, that would be good. Trouble is I dont see it happening here any time soon. Australians have a completely different psyche to these nations.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    As to the Dutch and Scandanavian model of making it hard to breed dogs. Germany is the same - you can only breed dogs if you have gone through lots of hoops that are rigourously enforced, that would be good. Trouble is I dont see it happening here any time soon. Australians have a completely different psyche to these nations.
    In Australia, first we have to adopt legislation that has already been PROVEN overseas to be useless, then have it in place for a decade or so until we decide it is likewise useless, then our "powers-that-be" decide to repeal it and go looking for the next bit of outdated, useless overseas law..... like BSL for example

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Villain & Flirtt View Post
    Ummmm.... Myf... not entirely sure what you're saying. But if there is no actual "reading between the lines" supposed to be done and it is just a statement, well, fair enough. He's a nice looking Roly, that's for sure :-)

    I found this post by Anne in another thread which I did not want to reopen... I know Anne is no longer a member, and that's a shame, because I think she summed it up nicely and between hers and Kalacreek's posts, I think I am well on my way to having my own opinion based on fair knowledge;

    Anne said: "There are ridiculous notions sprouted by both parties when it comes to the battle between xbred and pure bred dogs. There are healthy pure bred dogs and there are unhealthy purebred dogs. If the breeders of some breeds do not lift their game, there will be a lot less healthy purebred dogs as time goes on. There are issues in the purebred dog world regardless of who wants to accept and acknowledge that.

    There is more chance of an owner at least knowing what the future health is of a purebred pup. There is more reliability on the nature and personality of the dog as well. There is also certainly definite knowledge on exactly what the pups will look like and grow like.

    Xbred dogs have their place in our society as well. I believe that they are currently elevated to ludicrous high levels in this present day though. There is a much higher risk of having a dog with behavioural and health issues in cross bred dogs simply due to the nature of how they are bred and the lack of knowledge and the breeding practices in general.

    I believe that the notion that 'all' cross bred dogs are unhealthy to be illogical, the same as I believe the notion that all cross bred dog breeders do it for the money or are unloving or cruel dog owners is equally illogical and wrong. In the same vein, I do not think that all pure bred dog breeders breed healthy dogs, breed to better the breed or treat their dogs as they should. There are good and bad in both worlds, and both worlds have a place in our current society."

    Gee I wish there were better ways to encourage humans to make responsible decisions and be responsible dog owners.... I'm allowed to dream.

    Over and out.
    Thats an excellent post from Anne, and in a similar vien to what I was saying...though much more eloquent

  7. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz Tarja View Post
    i am going to get so trashed for this but i cannot help it

    not all "backyard breeders" are bad. that title is almost a dirty word. There are many 'registered breeders' out there who are terrible, keeping the dogs in kennels or just in the backyard, some are given little socialization, especially if the breeder doesn't believe it will be a show dog.

    also, and i mean to cause no offence, but A LOT (not all!!) breeders tend to breed for the look of their dogs, they breed ones that have won many things because they have won, not because they have a great temperament, (which in my opinion is the MOST important thing) or whether they can do the job they were originally bred for, or even if they are particularly healthy.

    once again i do not wish to cause offence and i no that there are many many good registered breeders our there, but its important to tell people not just to buy from a registered breeder because they are registered. we need to tell people what to look for when choosing a breeder and what to stay away from
    I agree!

  8. #78

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    I just wanted to say..
    I wouldn't like it, if my mum or dad cut of my testes so i couldn't have a kid or kids.

  9. #79

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    Haha oh dear, we have another one of 'those' people.

  10. #80

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    old thread

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