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Thread: GRRR the Attitude is Everywhere!

  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleasanta View Post
    this was done on ALL sizes!!!
    Yes i see that but you only used 200 didnt you out of 1600/1700.
    I just suggested try using the larger dog option because i was using it the other day and was above %50 on the purebred before 6 pages.
    It was merely an observation i thought you might like to check out.

  2. #422

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    yes we do our name is ruby red place

  3. #423
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    Perhaps we've been looking at this whole thing wrong - maybe it shouldn't be about who can breed dogs, maybe it should be about who can own them? Like when you want to adopt children, how you have to go through the whole long process of interviews and recommendations and whatever else. It'd certainly take out the problem of impulse buying and the whole "puppy for Christmas" thing!!!

    You'd have to pass some sort of test before you'd be approved for ownership and sign some sort of legally binding declaration that you wouldn't breed your dog....

    My fantasy world is a nice place to live LOL.

  4. #424
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    I just checked that rescue site out, and yeah, the statistics out of almost 1800 look very different.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nattylou View Post
    Are the people breeding these crosses doing so with a final aim in mind? Or with this sort of innane mindset?:

    The principle of cross breeding is fairly simple. A judicious selection of two compatible breeds which, when crossed together, creates a cross breed that has acquired the best bits of each of the parents whilst leaving out the undesirable parts.

    from: Burke's Backyard > Fact Sheets > Pugaliers

    What an unscientific crock of manure.

    The difference is in purpose. People are quick to say that they are trying to combine the best bits of two breeds etc etc. Silken Windhounds are a great example of just how much work, dedication, time and sheer numbers of breeding animals is involved in that process. The culling (and by that I mean desexing and removing from the breeding program) process must be strict and can be heartbreaking. You may think you've found a good match only to end up with offspring that is completely out there. That is the risk with cross breeding. And the left over animals all must be re-homed.

    Most modern breeds were developed in times when there was less moral concern for unwanted dogs. This made life easier for the breed developer as they could literally cull (ie. bang on the head, throw in the river etc etc) rejects from their breeding program without need for costly vet work and time consuming pet-homing. This may sound mean but that's how it was. Society is a very different place now and as such there is a whole new world of duties and resposibilities for any breeder.

    The sheer numbers needed to be bred to establish a new breed from different root stock is bordering on socially unacceptable in this day and age. Particularly with a low population as in Australia where companion animal placements are limited.

    Just chucking together two different breeds and thinking you'll get the best bits is naive at best and downright mean at worst. All too often these first crosses turn out to get the worst bits from both parents, or turn out different altogether. Which creates a sea of health and welfare issues. Not to mention numerous disappointed owners who were expecting something very different to the dog they eventually get. Then to just keep on throwing these crosses together without a grand plan is ridiculous.

    Why try to breed something that doesn't have "breathing difficulties" like a pug if there are plenty of longer faced breeds already around? Why not leave it to dedicated pug people to improve the health of their breed?

    Have you ever seen a "pugalier" that has inherited the short face of a pug with the longer legs and energy levels of a JRT? Have you ever watched it try and run as much as it wants to when it can't breathe well enough to cope with it?

    I have. It's not pretty. And it's not fair. These animals shouldn't have to be backyard genetic experiments. Leave genetics to people that research and understand it, not to Gardeners and their like.

    Ok so as far as your concerned as long as YOU are happy with peoples aims to crossbreed and in your opinion doing so with a final aim in mind its ok?
    I mean the website you linked us to clearly shows thier aim was to "fulfil a long awaited dream to fill a niche"
    Now that sounds like the values everyone has been preaching around here.

  6. #426

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    this thread is geting intsing i hope it dos not go bad

  7. #427

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter70 View Post
    Ok so as far as your concerned as long as YOU are happy with peoples aims to crossbreed and in your opinion doing so with a final aim in mind its ok?
    I mean the website you linked us to clearly shows thier aim was to "fulfil a long awaited dream to fill a niche"
    Now that sounds like the values everyone has been preaching around here.
    I don't preach other peoples values, I can only try to share my own and try to point out facts.

    Fact is, most (barring probably less than 15) modern breeds of dogs have been constructed by people for whatever reason they chose during the last thousand years. Some more recent, and some older. But they were bred from base stock with a specific purpose in mind. Not trying to fill a marketable place for somebody, but trying to fill a need or desire of people. Not all these breeds were developed for work, many, many breeds were developed for companionship in whatever form the breeder chose.

    What you have chosen to ignore, and what I have gone to lengths to point out, is that the wastage of dogs created by developing a new breed in this day and age is bordering on socially unacceptable. This means that the process is long, arduous and expensive and cannot be undertaken lightly. But as you are showing a lack of willingness to see that point I won't go into it further.

    There are people out there working to standardise or gain recognition for many, many new and not so new breeds. Silkens are but one. There are Murray Valley Curly Coated Retrievers, Australian Bull Arabs, Australian Bulldogs, Australian Koolies etc etc etc. And that is just Australia.

    How recently as the Australian Stumpy Tailed Cattle Dog given recognition? Or the Tenterfield Terrier? But have they been created for financial gain with no regard for the welfare of the breeding animals within that breed? Oodles and Doodles and cav or pug-a-liers or jack spaniels or whatever other mutt that is being churned out and flogged off to unsuspecting or ignorant people have. Money. Not even to fill a niche as companion or working animals. Money.

    And who wears the suffering at the end? The dogs. So there is no point arguing with you about it, as they still have no voice. And if you cannot listen to those who try to speak for them you are wasting people's time.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter70 View Post
    Yes i see that but you only used 200 didnt you out of 1600/1700.
    I just suggested try using the larger dog option because i was using it the other day and was above %50 on the purebred before 6 pages.
    It was merely an observation i thought you might like to check out.
    Peter...are you paying attention? Back in this thread...this whole debate started when you mentioned your Neo boy wasn't desexed. I asked you the question whether he is on Main or Limited register, which you have not answered as of yet! People started talking about irresponsible breeding like...BYB, Puppy mills, registered breeders breeding for the wrong reasons, people breeding cross/designer breeds for profit...irresponsible dog ownership when you do not desex your dog/bitch etc. I said...there is no reason to breed cross breeds and/or breed with dogs/bitches who do NOT comply with the particular standard!

    So I did your research for you regarding the "pure bred" large dogs on PetRescue. The first 10 pages (100 dogs)...52 dogs were "pure breeds"! Out of those dogs...39 dogs are Greyhounds. Greyhounds in general are not bred to be PETS!!!!! NOW...here it becomes interesting! So out of 52 dogs....I would "assume" that the remaining 13 "purebred" dogs out of 100 were bred to be pets. NOW...are you following me...that means....13% of the LARGE dogs were bred as pets...39% were bred for racing and not as pets initially (in most cases). That the Greyhounds are on the list can only be mostly due to them not performing as racing dogs and/or are getting too old!

    NOW...it get even more interesting...out of those 13 "purebreds"...how many of them are REGISTERED with the Governing Body eg Dogs NSW, which means...they come from a registered breeder? If a dog was listed on PetRescue and they had registration papers...I am 100% sure that would be mentioned in the dog's intro as an insentive for potential buyers.

    So...where did these "purebreds" come from? Yep...you guessed right...from BYB's, irresponsible registered breeders and/or Puppy mills. ANYBODY can breed a "purebred"...your Beagle mates the neighbours Beagle and HURRAY you have Beagle puppies...this is BYB and irresponsible, selfish and unnessecary on so many levels!

    NOW...a registered breeder who breeds mainly for profits...not taking into account what is best for the breed and therefore best for the puppies....is also a BYB and if he mass-produces pups...he is still a Puppy mill! This is the same with people breeding Blue Staffy pups...purely for the colour because they know they can get up to $2500 for ONE puppy...they are irresponsible! Or people breeding Rottweilers with "natural Bobtails". Natural Bobtails carry a mutated gene which is linked to Spina Bifida but people STILL breed them because they can get 1000's and 1000's of dollars for ONE bobtail Rottweiler since tail docking has been banned!

    There are "purebreds" and then there are registered purebreds who were bred by responsible, ethical breeders!!!

    If ALL cross breeding was stopped...if Pet shops were banned from selling dogs...if irresponsible breeders (registered or not) were massively fined...we wouldn't have this debate! The ratio of abandoned animals and animals PTS every year would be significantly reduced!!!

    Now pick out some little inane piece of information in this post and bark up another wrong tree with it.

    ETA: People who work to produce new breeds...do it with research and a goal in mind. They don't just cross this and that because they can. They research what particular traits they want in the breed and research...research...research! It is done over a long period of time and can take a long time to get the breed registered with the ANKC. There is a BIG difference between breeding cross breeds from your backyard and the people who put in time...money etc to produce dogs that are perfect for...lets say...the Australian climate!
    Last edited by Cleasanta; 12-26-2009 at 07:41 AM.

  9. #429
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    I see it was ok for you to use greyhounds in your original percentages?
    I thought a purebred in the pound is a purebred in the pound. Are you saying greyhounds arent a purebred?
    So you agree with Nattylou then that its ok to xbreed to create a dog for a "niche".
    Now go back and read my posts, the only reason i have kept this going is because of the way the pompous few around here feel they are the only ones entitled to an opinion. My opinion is no different to yours except desexing and until it comes to belittling/ berating and being just plain nasty to someone and bomarding them with your view.
    You guys constantly demand facts of others yet provide very few yourself, by this i mean "FACTS" not self absorbed opinions. Drop your qualifications on the table and you may be taken serious.
    Figures are a beautiful thing and can be manipulated by anyone to assist them in thier arguments.
    As for Nero i believe he is on the main register, he wont be desexed at anytime soon.
    Enjoy bathing in your self righteousness this is over and out for me on this subject, your arguments have achieved nothing with me as mine with you. I know myself to be a responsible dog owner and despite your opinions will remain to be one.

  10. #430
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    I think you should put down some homeless dogs/puppies sometime Peter.
    Education not Legislation

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