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Thread: GRRR the Attitude is Everywhere!

  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occy View Post
    Well duh - of course the prostate is not removed. However, there is a greater chance of advancing prostate cancer without desexing.

    A quick google search confirms what I said - testosterone FEEDS prostate cancer and thus treatments work to bring down the hormone levels. I would rather go with medical science, not the theories of people who just can't be bothered desexing their dogs

    What Causes Prostate Cancer?

    And from that site

    "Nice To Know:

    A few studies suggested that having a vasectomy (a sterilization procedure in which the tubes that transport sperm cells are cut and tied, so that a man cannot make a woman pregnant) might increase a man's risk for prostate cancer. However, most studies do not support this finding."


    ETA: Wow - hell of a first post - not only talking about facts that dont exist but lso assuming you would be attacked - nice - you MIGHT have wanted to try a thread in the intro forum, or are you not interested in reasonable dialoge? You're not stupid, just wrong

    ETA: IMO - of course!
    You must be so proud of the way you treat people.

  2. #382
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    Aussie myf,

    You ask what my point is and i will try and explain it again. Forgive me as this will be a very long post but I’m trying to explain, to the best of my ability, how I feel.

    IMO the problem with crossbreeding is the fact that it is done too often and for the wrong reasons, ie negligence, money etc. I do not agree with this and have NEVER said I do. However, I do not think crossbreeding itself is morally wrong and after discussions on here it got me thinking about the genetics involved in pure breeding.

    No-one has answered my question about why so many breeds have breed specific health problems,. Is this as a result of the pure breeding itself and the smaller gene pool?

    I never said if you breed from 2 unhealthy dogs you will get a healthy puppy, cross or not, Pugger. If we take it as a given that you only breed from apparently healthy stock (without genetic testing) then, given my limited understanding of genetics I would say the first cross would be no more or less likely to suffer from health issues as both it’s parents are pure breeds with the associated health problems attributed to each breed. BUT surely if those crosses are then bred to a different breed the genetic markers associated with it’s parent would be diluted again, and diluted even more for the next generation.

    Occy made the argument that we cross dogs for FASHION, maybe we do, BUT I am also wondering why we show dogs. If the problems pure breeds have is as a result of many many years of pure breeding (let’s face it, if left to nature these dogs with problems would have been wiped out years ago, or not even existed given the wider opportunity for genetic variation) then the fact breeders breed them for shows according to standards set by a governing body (some standards people have already agreed to the detriment of the breed) is this not as selfish as breeding for fashion? Breeding for a good working dog at least has a genuine purpose, but again it is a selfish one, as we want the dog to work for us.

    There does seem to be two different camps in here. The people who feel crossbreeding is just wrong and should not be done under any circumstances (even to the point of killing any unborn puppies resulting from an oops litter!) and there are those whose main concern is the fact that the shelters are overflowing with cross breeds. The latter, I feel, is a genuine concern. What I would like to see is the sale of ALL live animals to be much more regulated. You should have to have a license to breed/sell any animal. I also think de-sexing should be encouraged much much more. I think the price of registering entire dogs and bitches should be much higher. I also think you should have to register with your council BEFORE you buy a dog..It should be a legal offense to sell a dog to someone who has no registration certificate. Should help with impulse buys from pet shops etc, also help avoid those who don’t bother to register. If it’s a puppy then there could be some kind of short term puppy rate as it probably couldn’t be de-sexed yet. Of course there will be those who flout the law, there always is but I think the measures above would make it much less attractive for BYB’s and pet shops to do what they do.

    Finally I just wanted to say, if some of you could wave a magic wand I get the impression you would be happy to prevent any more crossbreeds from ever being created. I’m sorry but I feel it would be a sad sad world we lived in if this was the case.

    If you’ve managed to read all this, you deserve a medal. This is just my mind wandering while everyone else sleeps off Christmas dinner LOL.
    The best things in life, aren't things

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tkay View Post
    Aussie myf,

    You ask what my point is and i will try and explain it again. Forgive me as this will be a very long post but I’m trying to explain, to the best of my ability, how I feel.

    IMO the problem with crossbreeding is the fact that it is done too often and for the wrong reasons, ie negligence, money etc. I do not agree with this and have NEVER said I do. However, I do not think crossbreeding itself is morally wrong and after discussions on here it got me thinking about the genetics involved in pure breeding.

    No-one has answered my question about why so many breeds have breed specific health problems,. Is this as a result of the pure breeding itself and the smaller gene pool?
    Firstly

    You contradict yourself there. This
    IMO the problem with crossbreeding is the fact that it is done too often and for the wrong reasons, ie negligence, money etc. I do not agree with this and have NEVER said I do.
    IS a moral judgement.

    Secondly

    I did answer you, but I will say it again. It is as a result of smaller gene pools due to over selective breeding for the wrong reasons. In the GSD it also relates to the breed ban that was here for 30 years.

    Additionally, these faults do happen in x breds but there is no register, no way of telling which x is prone to what!

  4. #384
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    What does anyone get out of crossbreeding? Why would anyone do it purposely when we already have thousands of crossbreds without a home all over the country?
    Lab X Poodle= Labradoodle(or however its spelt) Come on now! You want one or the other! You shouldn't be able to have 'both'.
    This designer dog concept is relatively new in the scheme of how long the original breeds have been around. This means any crossbred can be a breed! Hmm Kelukis, Doberman Shepherd, Jorgie. I just invented three new breeds.
    One of the purebred breeders aim is to stay true to the original structure of the breed. Thus only the truest to their form get bred(if that makes sense?) Some still breed for their original purpose!
    Those that fail any kind of test, arn't contributing to the breed, so they arn't bred and are desexed.

    A few breeds have health problems due to inbreeding. Thats the breeder, not the concept of purebred breeding.
    We shouldn't just 'invent' new breeds to make our two family dogs, who we didn't desex, and whose puppies are really cute sound more desirable.
    As I said before, their is no need for 'breeders' to breed crossbreds.
    No doubt we will ALWAYS have 'accident' pups in shelters, except we don't need purposely bred mutts. Cause thats what they are, they are not pure in any way.
    Education not Legislation

  5. #385
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    I said bred, breeding, breeders and breed waaay to many times in that last post
    Education not Legislation

  6. #386
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    I can see the point of a labxpoodle as a service dog - but otherwise there is no purpose for x breeds aside from fashion.

    Lab x poodles have the same ratio as pure breds do when it comes to their purpose - only a few dont shed and are good for people with allergies who need a service dog.

    All other x breds have no purpose as far as I can see.

  7. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tkay View Post

    Finally I just wanted to say, if some of you could wave a magic wand I get the impression you would be happy to prevent any more crossbreeds from ever being created. I’m sorry but I feel it would be a sad sad world we lived in if this was the case.
    Um why? According to you(and others), crosses like the 'Pugalier' are a breed. Like a um, purebred Pugalier?
    If they are a cross, refer to them as that! Pug X Cavvie.
    Education not Legislation

  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nattylou View Post
    I'm a little bit on the fence with Windhounds, not being involved at all. But I do greatly admire the work and dedication put into their development. They have been genetically mapped for the last decade, which I think is something now being done with Bull Arabs in Australia. Ozeymum?? You about to clarify that one?

    And while Silken Windhounds are generally thought to be a stablised cross of Borzoi and Whippet, they have had introdution of other blood to strengthen desired characteristics - Shetland Sheepdog notably - like you'll find in most older establised breeds. Crossing two breeds and immediately expecting something halfway between them really doesn't work. There's hidden stuff that crops up and unexpected results galore.

    When I was a kid I thought that if you bred together a white horse and a brown horse you got a brown and white baby. This is something most adults would realise isn't going to happen. But we sort of do believe that with dogs.
    Go figure.
    ozeymum has been banned

  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occy View Post
    I can see the point of a labxpoodle as a service dog - but otherwise there is no purpose for x breeds aside from fashion.

    Lab x poodles have the same ratio as pure breds do when it comes to their purpose - only a few dont shed and are good for people with allergies who need a service dog.

    All other x breds have no purpose as far as I can see.
    Make exceptions for one. You'll make an exception for every other.
    Education not Legislation

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiemyf7 View Post
    Make exceptions for one. You'll make an exception for every other.
    I dont think so. No oneother x breed seems to have a purpose aside from commericial profit

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