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Thread: GRRR the Attitude is Everywhere!

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingoofus View Post
    Also, you do realize their are breeds and dogs who perform roles which dont care about looks? they breed for how well they work, Kelpies etc, if everyone was to breed dogs only if they meet the breed standard, our working dogs in the country would become less skilled over time. Yes, alot of the itmes these dogs are cross breds, alot of the great herding dogs are cross bred. Not all dogs are bred for the show ring.
    What are you basing your comments on??? Working Kelpies are registered with the Working Kelpie Council (WKC), which is the primary authority on the breed standard, and/or the State Sheepdog Workers Association. The WKC encourages breeding for working ability, and allows a wide variety of coat colours. The Working Kelpie cannot be shown, due to the wide standards allowed by the WKC. Show Kelpies are registered with the Australian National Kennel Council, that encourages breeding for a certain appearance and limits dogs to certain colours. Only Show Kelpies may be shown in Australia.

    Show Kelpies are restricted to solid colours (black, chocolate, red, smoky blue, fawn, black and tan, red and tan) in a short double coat and pricked ears. Different kennel clubs breed standards have preferences for certain colours. Show Kelpies are generally heavier and shorter than working Kelpies.

    A purebred WORKING Kelpie is therefore registered with papers with WKC and a SHOW Kelpie is registered with papers with ANKC!

    Yeah...and these cross bred dogs were "bred" for WHAT reason exactly????? You can get Working Kelpies that COMPLY with the WKC Standard for a working Kelpie!!!!!

    Your arguement for cross bred dogs is very thin!



  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleasanta View Post
    Improving is not just conformation based...it is 100% health and temperament based! It is not just about shortening muzzles etc. A dog breed should be within the standard, so changing the breed just because you feel it should look different...is not going to help much..is it? It is breeding to eliminate L2-HGA and HC in Staffies...2 devastating diseases. It is about elimination HD and ED in Rottweilers and other breeds prone to it. It is about breeding dogs who will not suffer from breathing problems due to flat faces....should I go on?!? It is about eliminating temperament issues...OCD is certain breeding lines etc etc. THIS is what responsible breeders spend a lot of time and money on. They bring in HEALTHY breeding stock...they make sure health testing is done...and DNA testing for certain Hereditary diseases. BYB do not do this...they don't spend years on improving their breed so it is HEALTHY...SOUND...good in CONFORMATION...have excellent TEMPERAMENT! People who cross breed with SBT...I will bet my left arm they do NOT test for L2-HGA and HC (if they even know what those 2 diseases are) and YES...it CAN be passed unto the puppies if one or both parents have it)!

    Sure cross breeds bring all the things you mention...they also bring clogged up pounds...doubled up health issues...no way of tracking temperament and health issues...no health testing etc etc.

    We are talking about the REASONS to breed cross breeds/designer breeds. There are no reasons other than financial ones or irresponsible ones for having an OOPS litter from entire bitches/dogs....or quite intentional ones because you can!

    Would I be WAY out of line if I assumed that 80% or more of puppies/dogs who end up in pounds/shelters etc are cross breeds of some kind. Remember I said I assume...perhaps some of the people who work in rescue etc could enlighten us on the % of cross breeds versus pure breeds coming through rescues etc.

    I what I assume is correct...then cross breeding is a big reason for over populated pounds...shelters...massive amount of PTS a year.
    Correct me if I'm wrong because I do not profess to be an expert but isn't this exactly what the ANKC do. Don't they decide to change the way a dog should look which is why some breeds have changed over the years, not always to the benefit of the dog.

    With regard to the health testing i was quite clearly in support of this and think ALL breeding should be registered and health testing should be carried out including Crossbreeds. So completely agree with you on that.

    Yes, I agree the majority of dogs clogging up the pounds are crossbreeds, a large amount being SBT crosses from my research, which is why I support what I said above, some kind of regstration for ALL breeders, not flaming all crossbreeds. If you make it financially more difficult for people to breed/sell their dogs then less people would do it. Crossbreeding has bought some very successful breeds which are almost a breed in themselves. If crossbreeding hadn't happened years ago we wouldn't have the breeds we have now.

    There are reasons other than financial to breed crossbreeds. If it was regulated and done correctly you can get some fantastic dogs.
    The best things in life, aren't things

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tkay View Post
    What purpose? Surely most are not working dogs anymore?
    IMO if you are not breeding for the standard - which includes working ablity - then you are going to destroy the breed. Many gsd breeders have done that in breeding soft dogs that have no heart whatsoever.

    Bold and courageous - why shouldn't your family pet be that?

    Of course they are still working dogs - why do you think so many go back being kept in backyards? It isn't because they need love - it is because they need stimulation - obedience, agility, flyball, lure coursing, tunnel dog, tracking, endurance, jumping, etc etc - those things are designed to give dogs a direction for their drive.

  4. #164
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    Main x breds you find depends on the area - renbury has mostly gsd x, staffy x and kelpie/heeler x

    Many of the dogs on the border seems to be of the fluffy variety - as well as staffy x

    Melbourne seems to have its fair share of kelpie and heeler x

    but outstanding in all these places is the swf x - malt/shih or oodle - cause they stop being cute

    i know a woman who just bought a second oodle - impulse buy naturally - and all she could do was go on and on - it's so cute, and it sleeps like this - and it does this - - imo she is a typical swf oodle owner - she wants a child not a dog - dogs are not replacement children.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter70 View Post
    Just for the record my x neo bitch is desexed and my dog is only 12 months old. He is a registered Neopolitan Mastiff with a good healthy background. No one has even asked what i had they just all labelled me irresponsible. why would i desex a 12 month old puppy when he is showing all the signs of being a standout example of the breed?
    Occy i never called you a hypocrite? I simply asked you a question .
    I see by your profile you are a teacher, maybe you should use that skill to try and educate people not just put them down because they dont share your view.
    Cleasanta, i'm glad your a responsible breeder, i havent supported anywhere crossbreeding and half the otherstuff you wrote so get down of your soapbox and take a deep breath. ( you guys really miss the point i'm trying to make, you use the whole one glove fits all)
    Do you breed your dogs from home? How long have you been breeding for? Was there a day when you were "NEW" to breeding? Did you get any support or just criticism?
    Peter
    You never offered us the information either. If your boy is on Main Register that allows you to breed with him...he is health tested...he has the right conformation...the right temperament for a Neo and he has proven himself in the show ring....go for it! Go find another purebred Neo that compliments his traits.

    I have NEVER had a litter of puppies! I have a breeders prefix, but might NEVER use it! I don't intend to either UNLESS my SBT girl has something special...she proves herself in the show ring to be WITHIN the standard and she can bring SOMETHING GOOD AND SPECIAL to the breed. Health testing WILL be done before anything is even considered....a PROVEN Sire will be chosen and YES, we will be QUITE happy to pay for his service, which can be up to $2000 for a Champion dog!!! My girl has a GREAT SBT temperament....she has very dark eyes, correct tail set, lovely half-pricked ears, is "square" and so far looks really good. She won Best Baby Puppy of Breed at her first show ever, so she is a bit special. THOSE are the type of dogs/bitches that should be used for breeding.....dogs/bitches that can IMPROVE the breed...giving puppies great temperament...good conformation...excellent health etc.

    My girl is only 7 months old and will not be bred from until she is at least 2 1/2 years old and fully mature. I have already started my research into breeding lines...HEALTHY potential Sires...trying to eliminate blue blood lines and putting money aside for this adventure.

    I label you irresponsible if you breed your dog with a different breed or cross breed on purpose. I also label you irresponsible if you don't do genetic health testing before using your boy or make sure he has proven conformation and temperament. I label you irresponsible if your entire dog gets out and impregnates a bitch resulting in an oops litter! I label you irresponsible if you breed from your dog, if he is only on Limited Register with your State's Governing Council.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter70 View Post
    Just for the record my x neo bitch is desexed and my dog is only 12 months old. He is a registered Neopolitan Mastiff with a good healthy background. No one has even asked what i had they just all labelled me irresponsible. why would i desex a 12 month old puppy when he is showing all the signs of being a standout example of the breed?
    Occy i never called you a hypocrite? I simply asked you a question .
    I see by your profile you are a teacher, maybe you should use that skill to try and educate people not just put them down because they dont share your view.
    Cleasanta, i'm glad your a responsible breeder, i havent supported anywhere crossbreeding and half the otherstuff you wrote so get down of your soapbox and take a deep breath. ( you guys really miss the point i'm trying to make, you use the whole one glove fits all)
    Do you breed your dogs from home? How long have you been breeding for? Was there a day when you were "NEW" to breeding? Did you get any support or just criticism?Peter
    Good to see you answered my questions on your breeding Cleasanta. One more you might like to answer perhaps. When you do breed do you sell your pups or do you give them away to other people interested in bettering the breed?

    Occy, what would you be biting at?

    It does seem pointless calling this website "Australian Purebreed and Crossbreed dog forum" It seems in Occy's opinion crossbreeds are only bred for the pound. God help anyone who's buys a dog for companionship.
    Last edited by peter70; 12-23-2009 at 11:12 AM.

  7. #167
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    He hasn't been shown (I'm not interested in showing at the moment).
    He's not breeding quality, his hips aren't great (they're too straight)

    I know everyone is going to say desex him, but if I do or not it's up to me. I've spoken to my vet about it and we've actually been told if he's not showing behavoral (sp?) problems then not to put him under the stress of the operation, I'll admit this did surprise me quite a bit.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bordeaux View Post
    Thanks Occy I respect your opinion.
    We're still on the fence about desexing Griffen we have been advised to wait untill he's 2 years old before deciding (he turns 2 this friday)
    There's pro's and cons to both sides I think.
    Has he got his Australian Championship yet? How has he done in the show ring and Specialty Show ring?

    I can understand why some breeds should wait getting desexed...due to late maturity. But if the dog hasn't been shown...doesn't have "something special"...if you get my drift, then in my opinion...he shouldn't be used for breeding and that is breeding with a bitch of his own breed.

    Is he on Main Register papers?

  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleasanta View Post
    What are you basing your comments on??? Working Kelpies are registered with the Working Kelpie Council (WKC), which is the primary authority on the breed standard, and/or the State Sheepdog Workers Association. The WKC encourages breeding for working ability, and allows a wide variety of coat colours. The Working Kelpie cannot be shown, due to the wide standards allowed by the WKC. Show Kelpies are registered with the Australian National Kennel Council, that encourages breeding for a certain appearance and limits dogs to certain colours. Only Show Kelpies may be shown in Australia.

    Show Kelpies are restricted to solid colours (black, chocolate, red, smoky blue, fawn, black and tan, red and tan) in a short double coat and pricked ears. Different kennel clubs breed standards have preferences for certain colours. Show Kelpies are generally heavier and shorter than working Kelpies.

    A purebred WORKING Kelpie is therefore registered with papers with WKC and a SHOW Kelpie is registered with papers with ANKC!

    Yeah...and these cross bred dogs were "bred" for WHAT reason exactly????? You can get Working Kelpies that COMPLY with the WKC Standard for a working Kelpie!!!!!

    Your arguement for cross bred dogs is very thin!


    Well there are alot of stockman out there who breed certain dogs depending on the job, for example alot will breed blue heelers back with kelpies to give em the extra toughness to deal with cattle, whiel also giving it endurance. Alot of people will cross the kelpie with their border collie strain if they think they need a dog more hardier for the heat, yet, has the bc thriving to be told what to do. There are alot of of reasons why people cross their dogs for herding. The reason we have breeds liek the kelpie and blue heeler in the first place is due to cross breeding.
    Ask a Border Collie to jump and it'd say, "how high?", ask a Kelpie and he'll ask, "why?"

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter70 View Post
    Good to see you answered my questions on your breeding Cleasanta. One more you might like to answer perhaps. When you do breed do you sell your pups or do you give them away to other people interested in bettering the breed?

    Occy, what would you be biting at?

    It does seem pointless calling this website "Australian Purebreed and Crossbreed dog forum" God help anyone who's buys a dog for companionship.
    Our puppies will be sold to people who can prove they have had SBT's OR another Bull Breed before....they will be sold on LIMITED REGISTER with a cash back for desexing...they will be DNA health tested BEFORE they leave us...if we keep a puppy ourselves (WHICH WOULD BE THE ONLY REASON FOR BREEDING WITH OUR GIRL!!!)...this puppy will be Main Register so we can show him/her! If we can see 2 puppies are "special"...then we will keep BOTH! If someone wants a Main Register puppy...they will need to prove to us they are used to the show part of it all and we will demand joint ownership until the decision has been made whether this puppy is any good!

    Does that answer enough for you?
    Last edited by Cleasanta; 12-23-2009 at 11:42 AM.

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