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Thread: GRRR the Attitude is Everywhere!

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingoofus View Post
    You do know that it's nearly just as likely for a dog comnig from a registered breeder to end up in a shelter?
    please show some stats of this!

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingoofus View Post
    Actually, cross breds tend to be more healthy, because their dna is not restricted to the same pool in terms of the breed. If you have a dog who's breed has issues with hip dysplasia, then you have a cross bred, from half the same breed, and a breed that doesn't have a history with the problem, then the cross bred will be less likely to get the problem.

    Also, you do realize their are breeds and dogs who perform roles which dont care about looks? they breed for how well they work, Kelpies etc, if everyone was to breed dogs only if they meet the breed standard, our working dogs in the country would become less skilled over time. Yes, alot of the itmes these dogs are cross breds, alot of the great herding dogs are cross bred. Not all dogs are bred for the show ring.
    Oh wow - I thought your previous post showed little understanding - but this one takes the cake. as far as I can see, you are spouting what you have read as opposed to what you have experienced or studied.

    I have owned all manner of GSDs - x bred, byb, pure bred.

    Let's see

    Barack - pure bred - NOT desexed - died of testicular/prostate cancer - back in the early 90s - my parents dog - he was 10 - pedigree

    Billie - pure bred GSP - pts after having two strokes - 14 - rescue

    Sandy - x bred gsd - pts once her mind had gone - had had two strokes as well - 14 - rescue

    Cappy - Pure bred - died of a rare cancer this year - 11 and a bit -pedigree dog

    Flash - pure bred - died of haemangiosarcoma this year - 11 - rescue - BYB

    Billie - GSD or X - died of a rare cancer a week after Flash - 10 years old - rescue - BYB

    And then there is mums current dog - a GSD x heeler who has inoperable cancer - he is 11 atm.

    Hibrid vigour is a myth. Yes - small gene pools are dangerous - but so are wide ones done with no thought to health or temperament.

    I lost 3 dogs this year - a pure bred papered dog, a pure bred BYB and another BYB of dubious origin - you tell me - where is the hibrid vigour?

    Oh - my first shep was pure bred - he died at 18...

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bordeaux View Post
    I'm sure I'm taking a huge risk of getting flamed but I cant see how just because I own an entire male makes me an irrisponsible owner?
    I'm looking at becoming a registered breeder (not for a few years yet) I'll still have to take the same steps I'm taking now to ensure I dont end up with unwanted litters.
    Any dog that is not being used to better a breed should be desexed IMO - no flaming - just opinion.

    If your dog is going to become part of your program then of course he should not be desexed.

    Peter - nice try - but I don't bite - sorry matey...

    If your dog is going to be used to better your breed - great - however, you weren't the target of the comments made earlier.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tkay View Post
    I know alot of you will definitely not agree with me on this but I just wanted to point out and answer to the blue bit above - Lots of love, devotion happiness, loyalty, that's what they bring to this world! I have to admit this whole "Only reason to breed is to improve the breed" stuff just doesn't sit right with me at all. Are you really saying the only reason we have dogs is to show them! Dogs - pure breeds, crosses, both bring so much happiness into the world I cannot agree the only reason they are here is for some Dog Breeder to improve their breed (presumably to the standard set by the ANKC), Sorry I couldn't give a stuff what the ANKC thinks of my dog, she is gorgeous in every way. Can you also tell me how you can keep improving a breed. I really don't get it, aren't the champion show dogs already the best so how do you keep improving them? I guess people's ideas of 'improving' could be very different to that of the ANKC given the health issues some pure breeds are having just to conform to standard (Shorter and shorter muzzles etc)

    The argument I do agree with, against Cross breeds, are the health issues. If this could be addressed with Crossbreed breeders health testing their dogs it would help but, as has been pointed out before, all the health testing in the world does not guarantee a healthy litter. I also STRONGLY agree on the desexing part. Unless you really intend to be a responsible breeder (including crossbreeds) then get your dog de-sexed and you know there will be no accidents. Simple really.

    Also I am fed up with BYB and Puppy Mills being bundled together in the same group. I would imagine most BYB love their dogs and are breeding them out of, mostly, misguided love for the dog. They want another puppy or they want to experience the miracle of birth. I'm not saying these are valid reasons to breed but it is NOT the same as Puppy Mills where dogs are kept in dreadful conditions and bred over and over again. Not the same thing at all.

    Sorry for the ramble, hope it mostly makes sense.

    Flame away
    Breed standards are there for a reason - dogs are bred for a purpose. there is a pure breed to suit every purpose under the sun - why on earth should we produce extra to die in pounds?

    I have rescued x breeds - I had a JRT x heeler here last year - and I have moggie kittens as well - though the vet reckons they have some oriental in them. I have nothing against the animals themselves - however give me the person that bred them and I would probably feel differently.

    There is no reason on earth for x bred and oodles - aside from the fact ppl state they don't like how poodles look and want a dog that is allergy free - well buddy - research would tell you - getting that oodle is rare!!

    I don't think the dogs alive should be punished - but I would like to see every dog not used as part of a genuine breeding program desexed by the time it is 1 - for a small dog - and 18 months for a large dog

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tkay View Post
    I know alot of you will definitely not agree with me on this but I just wanted to point out and answer to the blue bit above - Lots of love, devotion happiness, loyalty, that's what they bring to this world! I have to admit this whole "Only reason to breed is to improve the breed" stuff just doesn't sit right with me at all. Are you really saying the only reason we have dogs is to show them! Dogs - pure breeds, crosses, both bring so much happiness into the world I cannot agree the only reason they are here is for some Dog Breeder to improve their breed (presumably to the standard set by the ANKC), Sorry I couldn't give a stuff what the ANKC thinks of my dog, she is gorgeous in every way. Can you also tell me how you can keep improving a breed. I really don't get it, aren't the champion show dogs already the best so how do you keep improving them? I guess people's ideas of 'improving' could be very different to that of the ANKC given the health issues some pure breeds are having just to conform to standard (Shorter and shorter muzzles etc)

    The argument I do agree with, against Cross breeds, are the health issues. If this could be addressed with Crossbreed breeders health testing their dogs it would help but, as has been pointed out before, all the health testing in the world does not guarantee a healthy litter. I also STRONGLY agree on the desexing part. Unless you really intend to be a responsible breeder (including crossbreeds) then get your dog de-sexed and you know there will be no accidents. Simple really.

    Also I am fed up with BYB and Puppy Mills being bundled together in the same group. I would imagine most BYB love their dogs and are breeding them out of, mostly, misguided love for the dog. They want another puppy or they want to experience the miracle of birth. I'm not saying these are valid reasons to breed but it is NOT the same as Puppy Mills where dogs are kept in dreadful conditions and bred over and over again. Not the same thing at all.

    Sorry for the ramble, hope it mostly makes sense.

    Flame away
    Improving is not just conformation based...it is 100% health and temperament based! It is not just about shortening muzzles etc. A dog breed should be within the standard, so changing the breed just because you feel it should look different...is not going to help much..is it? It is breeding to eliminate L2-HGA and HC in Staffies...2 devastating diseases. It is about elimination HD and ED in Rottweilers and other breeds prone to it. It is about breeding dogs who will not suffer from breathing problems due to flat faces....should I go on?!? It is about eliminating temperament issues...OCD is certain breeding lines etc etc. THIS is what responsible breeders spend a lot of time and money on. They bring in HEALTHY breeding stock...they make sure health testing is done...and DNA testing for certain Hereditary diseases. BYB do not do this...they don't spend years on improving their breed so it is HEALTHY...SOUND...good in CONFORMATION...have excellent TEMPERAMENT! People who cross breed with SBT...I will bet my left arm they do NOT test for L2-HGA and HC (if they even know what those 2 diseases are) and YES...it CAN be passed unto the puppies if one or both parents have it)!

    Sure cross breeds bring all the things you mention...they also bring clogged up pounds...doubled up health issues...no way of tracking temperament and health issues...no health testing etc etc.

    We are talking about the REASONS to breed cross breeds/designer breeds. There are no reasons other than financial ones or irresponsible ones for having an OOPS litter from entire bitches/dogs....or quite intentional ones because you can!

    Would I be WAY out of line if I assumed that 80% or more of puppies/dogs who end up in pounds/shelters etc are cross breeds of some kind. Remember I said I assume...perhaps some of the people who work in rescue etc could enlighten us on the % of cross breeds versus pure breeds coming through rescues etc.

    I what I assume is correct...then cross breeding is a big reason for over populated pounds...shelters...massive amount of PTS a year.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingoofus View Post
    Actually, cross breds tend to be more healthy, because their dna is not restricted to the same pool in terms of the breed.
    Show proof of this!!!!

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occy View Post
    Breed standards are there for a reason - dogs are bred for a purpose. there is a pure breed to suit every purpose under the sun - why on earth should we produce extra to die in pounds?

    I have rescued x breeds - I had a JRT x heeler here last year - and I have moggie kittens as well - though the vet reckons they have some oriental in them. I have nothing against the animals themselves - however give me the person that bred them and I would probably feel differently.

    There is no reason on earth for x bred and oodles - aside from the fact ppl state they don't like how poodles look and want a dog that is allergy free - well buddy - research would tell you - getting that oodle is rare!!

    I don't think the dogs alive should be punished - but I would like to see every dog not used as part of a genuine breeding program desexed by the time it is 1 - for a small dog - and 18 months for a large dog
    What purpose? Surely most are not working dogs anymore?
    The best things in life, aren't things

  8. #158
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    Thanks Occy I respect your opinion.
    We're still on the fence about desexing Griffen we have been advised to wait untill he's 2 years old before deciding (he turns 2 this friday)
    There's pro's and cons to both sides I think.

  9. #159
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    Has he been in the ring? Have any breeders had a good look at him? Has ge been health and genetic tested?

    Sandy had the most gorgeous temperament and would have made an ace mother - in fact I am fairly sure she was one before I got her- Billie the second, too.n But they were x bred or byb so they were desexed when they got here.

    Not desexing at an early age meant that Billie dog was riddled with cancer when i got her - it's amazing that it wasnt that cancer that killed her!

  10. #160
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    So how do you decide if Griffen is good for breeding? Will you get him assessed by someone? Just interested how it all works

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