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Thread: a new pup, but what kind?

  1. #1
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    Default a new pup, but what kind?

    Hi folks.
    Because of the fear of purchasing a GSD with health risks these days, im trying venture away from breed. But im a sucker for a cute GSD pup of the right parents. I have a strong perference for working lines, as consider these to be the less unhealthy of the two types.
    Here are what ive been looking at...

    Blue Heelers: im trying to find out what their engergy level is like? they look kinda sedate, the ones ive met. But can they light up? anyone competed with one in dog sports? Spent a night with a copper who has just got a pup, piqued my interest as masses of prey drive in the 14 week old pup, and barked at me as i came into the house, (good gaurd?), and yeah, chewed my laces on my shoes, tried to steal the dead dog biscuits crumbs out of the bottom of my handbag (good nose?). I was pretty impressed with the pup. And confident as! balancing on a stationery skate board, that wobbled and rocked, still pup stayed on the skateboard. So my research begun, but not a lot on energy, drives info.

    I have access to working line Cooli pups. What are these like? they appear to have the kelpie touch to me.

    4 types of Belgian Shepherd that i am considering as a healthier alternative to GSD: Groenendael: Tervurenis, Malines, and Laeken
    I am confused, are these 4 different breeds, or same breed different colouring? It is not that clear from the websites believe it or not. Is it the length of coat, as it seems to suggest the long double coated variety if the groenendael?

    how does the belgium shep differ temperament wise? health wise to the GSD? and if they are the same, musculoskeletally, cept hiind legs, are the hind legs better or worse than the GSD for injury resistance? Having read a fair bit yesterday, i even more confused. ie. are malines the same as what i know a malinois?

    Does anyone have any experience with these breeds?
    or, do you have other suggestions for me of a pup? easy to train, needs plenty of exercise, will be happy doing dog sports.

  2. #2
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    OMG, standard poodles come in piebald colour!
    now a poodle would be a fine dog. Just dont like the look of the black
    poodle + grasslands, that coat could be troublesome i think?

  3. #3
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    Having lived with an ACD for the last few months I'd say they are incredibly intelligent, maybe a smidge demanding if they want something, make good guard dogs and definitely don't underestimate that 'heeler' instinct.... I couldn't turn my back on Jilly for the first month when she was terrified of me.

    I don't think Jilly is the best example of what an ACD should be, she has no socialisation with dogs, which means she completely explodes with energy/excitement when meeting another dog (Tried her with Koda yesterday for the first time, she lost if at first, trying to lunge and nip at him (he was an angel thank goodness). After a walk together she stopped lunging at him, but still doesn't know how to play, she just completely flips out with excitement which pushes Koda over threshold with excitement as well, not ideal.

    She doesn't have much socialisation with people either, only trusts a select few. I reckon ACDs are probably often like that, but not a severely as Jilly is to the point it takes a month for her to trust someone...

    Fiercely loyal, quick learners... energy levels are hard to say. Jilly is the type of dog who can easily go on all day with activity, but would be just as happy to chill with her people inside instead.... she has heaps of energy, but won't make you lose your mind if for some reason you can't give it to her.
    No idea if all ACDs are like that though.

    I adore Belgian Malinois, I know nothing about them though

    I don't know much about Koolies, I only know a few, from what I've seen they're quite like Kelpies. Would you consider a Kelpie or are they not your type of dog?

    Would an Aussie Shepherd be your type of dog? Loyal, loads of energy (especially if you chose the right lines), very quick learners, very eager to please, good watch dogs, loves dog sports and trick training... I could go on Aussies are also the type of dog that could go on for ages, but are just as happy to spend time inside watching TV with their owner.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    OMG, standard poodles come in piebald colour!
    now a poodle would be a fine dog. Just dont like the look of the black
    poodle + grasslands, that coat could be troublesome i think?
    My next dog is gonna be a Standard Poodle... Maybe in a year or two. Will definitely be a change from the herding dogs! They're brilliant though, so smart, full of energy, eager to please, just gorgeous dogs! We have grass seeds everywhere here in summer, and thick mud here in winter, so I'd be keeping mine in a short Miami Clip (#7F) all year around leaving a top knot and pom poms on legs so I've got a bit of hair to style I am a dog groomer after all! In winter I'd jus put a jacket on the dog to keep it warm. You don't have to leave pom poms though. I have a client who has his Standard Poodle shaved with a #7F from head to toe, he's a stunning athletic dog and can really pull that clip off brilliantly!

    Poodles do come In Piebald... It's called Parti coloured, and unfortunately is quite uncommon in Aus. The ANKC seems to have decided that only solid coloured poodles are acceptable, despite Parti, Phantom and Brindle colours being accepted in other countries. I think there is only one or two decent Parti Standard Poodle breeders around, and because of that I've decided against going for that colour (even though I love it!), I'd love a white Standard Poodle but, that will all depend on what the breeder I chose says!
    Last edited by maddogdodge; 08-29-2015 at 07:54 AM.

  5. #5
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    bernie,

    I don't know anything about Belgian Shepherds...Malinois...to me they look like skinny GSDs.

    Where there's a huge difference is the health...

    Disorders by Breed - Belgian Shepherd Dog (Malinois) - LIDA Dogs - Faculty of Veterinary Science - The University of Sydney

    Disorders by Breed - German shepherd dog - LIDA Dogs - Faculty of Veterinary Science - The University of Sydney

    I was at an All Breeds Show a few years ago and I asked the Belgian Shepherd people was your breed related to the GSD...well didn't they get upset ...I was told "NO" they are not and now I know why.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  6. #6

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    ‘bernie’ - Totally different pups and origins ! No wonder you got that reaction with your comment - 'Dogman' !

    This link – just gives the basics – but you can compare all the different Belgians to a GSD:

    Belgian Sheepdog vs German Shepherd - Dog Breeds Comparison

    Very interesting that the police and other services are changing away from GSDs:

    Police ditching the German Shepherd for Belgian breed - The Local

    There are GSDs that are bred healthy – you just have to do your homework really well. I would look at the older style of GSD – not the poor things I see in the show ring.

    Maybe PM ‘Nekhbet’ and see what she thinks/says ?
    Last edited by RileyJ; 08-30-2015 at 01:45 PM.

  7. #7
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    OK the most demanding dogs - ie gimme a job, I need a job, I will go CRAZY if I don't have job RIGHT NOW...

    are Malinios, some Border collies, Koolies (way worse than kelpies in this dept).

    Malinois aren't so good at Agility but they're heaps willing to give it a go. The current best Obedience/Agility dog in SA is a Koolie named Gabbi - super fast and super keen - when she's hot she's amazing... the handler stands in the middle of the ring and yells directions and the Koolie does it. And if she gets it right - she gets a tin of my dog as reward... but I'm not sure it's about the food for her.

    Kelpies are relatively laid back. So far we haven't had any really brilliant ones - ie super fit condition with great handler skills but they're getting there. Cattle dogs are also relatively laid back but there's a few out there doing it. Cattle dogs (along with kelpies) sometimes decide they know better what needs doing next...

    What I like about cattle dogs is they are super guard dogs, put on a fantastic scary act but if you stand still, you're safe. If you run, they will ankle tap you but not likely to tear you to bits. Tho rats might not be safe. Best saddle / back of ute / front seat guards ever. Will not leave to chase the offender but remain and continue to guard.

    The puppies do like chasing things, swinging off horses tails, joggers, bicycles, lawn mowers (including tractor mowers) are not safe until puppy is trained. Most cattle dogs have a thing about engines.

    Most cattle dogs in the city are fat. Mine was for a fair while but not any more and so much more willing to work.

    And - this is not unique to cattle dogs - most farm dogs have a dose of it. They remember bad things (or good things like the treat lady) for a very long time. So the bad dogs or any dog that looks vaguely similar tends to cop the "I'll get you before you get me" treatment.

    And for some reason an iggy in a coat is a cat... oh dear - got some work to do there but at least she was nice to the poodle crosses.

    Oh and cattle dogs are all Teflon coated - tho cow poo or dead sea creatures takes a little more effort to get off. Dirt and mud just falls off. Sheds a bit every day and a lot in spring and autumn. Easy to brush. Unless they prefer to eat the brush.
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 08-30-2015 at 08:20 PM.

  8. #8
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    Okay, I have had 6 cattle dogs. Things I look for are temperament and health issues. They need to be clear of PRA and hip and elbow dysphasia is starting to creep into some lines. Avoid lines that are a bit straight in the stifle = potential cruciate problems and for this reason do not let them get overweight! Ever! All mine bar one have had wonderful temperaments. They need good early socialisation and training. They are extremely quick to learn and I have run mine in obedience and agility. They need exercise and attention and are often Velcro dogs with their owners My favourite breed. Yeah they can be prone to chasing tyres and wheels of any description.

    I also have a koolie. He is also easy to train, I run him in agility with success. He is very loving and relatively laid back, but also needs exercise and training and they can be full on although the ones I know are not particularly. Need to watch for deafness and blindness in unscrupulous double merle breeding. Generally healthy structures. Mine is short coat but they come in long and can vary in size from quite small to tall like my guy.
    Belgian Shepherds ( terv ) are super agility dogs where I am and seem to be quite healthy dogs. They might suit you well
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 08-31-2015 at 07:53 AM.

  9. #9
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    LMAO at the comparison of belgium/GSD where it says the GSD is quiet? seriously? who the heck wrote that! They've never met all 3 of my GSD's who have all been absolute gobshites! Be that barking at a passersby, to moaning under their breath when being obedient, reluctantly.

    So that makes me think, i need to go see some of these dogs first, and cant trust all you read. NO news there then.

    @ Dogman. I am saddened, that all these breeds, free from popularity driven mass breeding, have faired so much better than their more popular cousins the GSD health wise.

    I need to go meet some of these dogs in person. It is very hard to get a sense of a breed from reading alone.
    Im researching the Terv first, as it seems the top of my list of wants on paper at least.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    LMAO at the comparison of belgium/GSD where it says the GSD is quiet? seriously? who the heck wrote that! They've never met all 3 of my GSD's who have all been absolute gobshites! Be that barking at a passersby, to moaning under their breath when being obedient, reluctantly.

    So that makes me think, i need to go see some of these dogs first, and cant trust all you read. NO news there then.

    @ Dogman. I am saddened, that all these breeds, free from popularity driven mass breeding, have faired so much better than their more popular cousins the GSD health wise.

    I need to go meet some of these dogs in person. It is very hard to get a sense of a breed from reading alone.
    Im researching the Terv first, as it seems the top of my list of wants on paper at least.
    I have been very impressed with the Tervs I know. They are from imported Danish stock. There was a breeding just recently, beautiful dogs all gone to performance homes.

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