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Thread: Need advice on new pup

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2009


    Hi MMM

    Diet probably deserves a thread of its own. I don't know nearly as much about that as I do about training.

    the tricky thing about making up your own food is making sure it is "complete and balanced" - to me that means variety. And I usually include some vegies and fibre (eg brown rice). But the cereals are optional in dog food, tho my dog does like grass a lot. She gets carrot often either in what I cook for her or just a raw bit - cos she's prone to over eating given the opportunity and when I'm having trouble resisting those big brown eyes - she gets carrot because she enjoys it and it won't end up on her waist. Cooked pumpkin is also good for doggy digestion and skin (chopped up cooked pumpkin skin helps with skin contact allergies) and doesn't put much onto a dog's waist either.

    I don't feed raw because it's messy and inconvenient and evil hound does not know how to chew her chicken wings properly - she just sort of breaks up the bones without breaking up the skin or pieces and then folds it and swallows whole - which comes back to haunt us later - not worth the clean up of extremely gross looking stuff if you ask me.

    Bones for her - are a choking hazard and a gut splintering hazard. I could probably give her the ball joint from a shin bone but I'd have to supervise and then take it away. Vets every year make a lot of money removing bones from dogs who have inhaled them or gotten them stuck on the way through. Some dogs are ok - mine isn't. I remember when at bbqs we gave all the chop and chicken bones to the dogs but not any more.

    the main thing is with things like chicken necks and heart - is you could probably play the give and geddit games with these or food trades... ie dog is minging on a chicken neck, say his name then "give" and wave a bit of heart at him, if he spits out the chicken neck - fantastic - give him the bit of heart... if not... try again with the kibble - will he trade that for heart? Susan Garrett would dip chicken necks in salmon oil (a Canadian thing), and trade with her puppy for the undipped chicken neck he was eating. If you can train him that he doesn't need to guard his food from you and yours that is a fantastic thing. And the younger you start this the easier it is.

  2. #12


    Thanks again guys.

    So we have had a bit of a breakthrough with both the toileting and mouthing.

    Max did not have any accidents inside at all yesterday and managed to get all his pees and poos on the puppy pads last night (yeehaa) I hadn't really done anything different either except a couple more puppy pads then usual to make a bigger area. He was even able to hold it yesterday arvo when we went to do the school run (previously he either had an accident in the car or at the front of the school) he started to whine on the way to the school and I thought here we go again, but alas he whined the whole way there, while waiting at the school and then the whole way home. I taxied him straight out the back and as soon as I put him down TADA!!! A great big wee, lots and lots of kisses and cuddles and treats. He held on until he got home and I couldn't have been more proud lol

    Also yesterday I noticed he was not as consistent with the mouthing. Each time I said "no bities" he immediately transferred to big licks and kept the teeth away. I continued "testing" him and rewarding with lots of cuddles and extended play and by last night I was able to play with his feet, belly, ears, face, tail.... I got heaps of licks but only had to remind him "no bities" twice and I didn't have to force the issue at all, we were able to keep playing until we were both worn out. It was GREAT!! Soooo stoked!! I noticed he would still get excited and loose a bit of self control with the kids but there hasn't been anything like what he was last week. We can walk around him, run with him and he isn't trying to grab clothes or feet. Very happy

    Also Hyacinth, just thought I'd mention that the chicken necks and wings are raw. I would never ever feed a cooked bone of any description to a dog or cat. However no one has ever told me not to feed raw chicken necks or wings (not even the vet, actually it was the vet who said I should include those in his daily diet)?? But now I'm worried... I might start a new thread in diet on this one....

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2009


    I would never ever feed a cooked bone of any description to a dog or cat. However no one has ever told me not to feed raw chicken necks or wings (not even the vet, actually it was the vet who said I should include those in his daily diet)?? But now I'm worried... I might start a new thread in diet on this one....
    It's a dog specific thing. My fave dog trainer Susan Garrett feeds her dogs and puppies chicken wings (and other things) with no problems - but my puppy / dog is a complete fail when it comes to how she eats them. Ie for my dog - the idea of biting things into pieces and then swallowing the smaller pieces is an entirely optional concept... And she's not bothered if the pieces have spikey edges either.

    I feed her roo jerky - supervised - because while it's dry and crunchy-chewy... even if she swallows it whole it will go soft in her gut and not spike her. Raw chicken wings and necks are ok - if your dog bites them into smaller pieces before swallowing.

    I know some people who feed their dogs whole raw chicken carcasses - but I saw on bondi vet - them pulling two of those out of the trachea (lungs) of a kelpie that inhaled them. And my friend's bull terrier inhaled a beef neck bone (because she thought for some reason the dog next door would get it if she didn't eat it fast enough) - that cost my friend over $6000 to get out... but my friend still lets her bull terrier have beef neck bones. I wouldn't.

    There are some bones like the bottom cartilage bit of lamb ribs - that are chewy and don't go spikey.... and chicken wings ought to be ok... I've given my dog a frozen turkey neck - it was too big for her to eat except by chewing off little bits and she couldn't sort of crumple it up and swallow it whole because it was frozen... so that was gross but ok...

    It all depends on what your dog does and how comfortable he is with you reaching into his mouth to pull things out... You don't know until you give him some. If he's fine on chicken necks now - I think he will continue to be fine but given I'm not much of a risk taker - I'd only be feeding them when I was home to supervise. I wouldn't be putting some down and then leaving to go shopping...

  4. #14


    LOL - I tried posting this a week ago and managed to get myself locked out of the forum for quite a few days ! So I will give it another go !

    WoW ! Impressive first post ! 'MadMaxMum' !

    My version of answers to your questions:

    Question 1:

    What weight of the different food types are you feeding – and - How often are you feeding during the day ? Having a fat pup of your pup’s breeding is not good. You want to grow them slowly – at least until 12 months old or even later.

    Chicken wings are good also – but I prefer chicken carcasses now for my 2. They will get that as a stand-alone breakfast. Just be careful with the gulping of chicken necks. Tinned fish – like – sardines, mackerel, salmon and tuna are on the menu here. Please be careful with changes to the diet – do it very slowly for a pup his age.

    Question 2:

    From your description – your pup does not have a clue as to what is required with toilet training. So I suggest – Work out what you want to happen and then train the pup for it.

    That is - Start again at the beginning. Your pup is still very young, so a lot of times it is one step forward and a couple of steps back ! I have also found that boys take a little longer than girls to get the message. So don't give up !

    Don’t forget to praise and treat if he does what you want ! My 2 – 8 years and 13 months old still get ‘good pups’ from me when they are toileting outside !

    Question 3:

    Have you ever corrected your cat – even before this pup arrived ? Always supervise all interactions between the 2. The use of child proof gates is a good send in situations like this. Never force interactions - let them happen.

    Question 4:

    Your pup is 4 months old – which equates to 16 weeks old. Your pup is teething. He is going to chew/bite on things you may not like – unless you give him an alternative. Teething can be a painful experience for him – not unlike – if you can remember - with your 2 kids !

    With my little one – carrots, cored apples and chicken wings worked well at that age – particularly if they were cold or even semi-frozen.

    Question 5:

    It has been a long time since I had a digger – and then she arrived ! At about 10 weeks old she dug a small hole next to the clothes line. As it had been raining a lot – she had a swimming pool. At about 4 months old – she decided she would do another one in the front yard – with heaps of help from the older pup. Again it had been raining and they both had heaps of fun ! I have ignored both of the holes and both of the pups have lost interest in their prized holes in the yard.

    How much training have you done with this pup ?

    Some links for you to have a look at:

    Puppy Development Schedule | K9pro Training

    All Vets Natural | My New Puppy

    Patricia McConnell | Welcome to The Reading Room | McConnell Publishing Inc.

    Clicker Training Library | Karen Pryor Clicker Training

    Dogmantics Dog Training

    Free Dog Training Articles | K9pro Training

    Good Luck and most importantly have fun with your pup ! They grow up far too quickly.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    melbourne australia


    I cant improve on the training info you've already received, just wanted to add some support to you for making the effort!
    You see so many folks buying a mix like this, and expecting a couch potatoe dog, without the training. Nice one MMM!
    Has put me off a pup for a while, so thankyou for this also! lol

  6. #16


    Thanks guys!

    Bernie - thank you for the kind words. I had an idea to some degree of what I was getting into when I brought Max home due to my previous staffy x ridgeback Jake.... Max is very similar in nature but where Jake was an outdoor dog brought up on 25 acres his training and desired behaviours differ from our little max who is primarily an indoor boy and has only a back yard so where they are similar in nature they are worlds away as far as training strategies in many ways. I recognise this and I'm learning just as much and just as fast as Max is. Please don't let me deter you from all the joys of a pup! Despite all my "cons" listed with our little Max, I do forget to mention all his amazing "pros" which out weigh the cons 10 to 1 of course he is incredibly smart in so many ways. He can "come, sit - stay, drop - stay, hi-5, up high (lift his nose up to touch an open hand) shake hands and then swap hands" all with about 95% accuracy.... However his recall still needs work when he is excited or distracted. He doesn't cry or complain when he is put outside while I'm moping the floor for instance and is happy to take a sunbake at these times. He hasnt even chewed a shoe or anything he isn't allowed to.....yet lol. He doesn't wake us up at night. He doesn't get on the couches unless invited up. He doesn't bark unless we are playing and even then it's only one or two yaps. He hasn't showed one bit of aggression toward other dogs, kids or adults. He walks on a slack lead happily only getting diverted by a smell but immediately releases when he feels the gentle tug on the lead and resumes his place beside or slightly behind me. He naturally waits now for everyone, including the cat to go in/out or doors or gates before him. He hasn't shown signs of being a fussy eater and has accepted everything I've given him.... He does sooooo many things that melt me everyday that all these other things I have been asking about pales in comparison. So please don't get me wrong, max is a VERY good pup and all this considering I'm just a run of the mill basic dog owner with no special training in handling dogs....seems to me on most days that max teaches and trains me, not the other way around lol

    Riley, to be honest I don't weigh the food. I use a measured cup for the royal canin which they guide says 324g per day which is equal to 2 1/3 cups however he doesnt always eat it all. So his meals go like this -

    Breakfast - chopped up roo steaks (human grade), beef cheek, heart and 2-4 chicken necks. All chopped up together solidly fills a full cup. If he eats it all easily and is sniffing for more I give 1/2 cup of his royal canin. If he doesn't eat all the royal canin I take it away until brunch.

    Brunch - he is offered any left over RC from breakfast or the other 1/2 a cup if he did eat the first 1/2 at breaky

    Lunch - usually a chicken wing or two.

    Afternoon - 1/2 cup of RC

    Dinner - final 1/2 cup or RC and usually some more roo and or lamb heart if he is still looking for more to eat.

    He also gets 1-2 raw meaty beef bones a week

    He weighted 7.2kgs when we first brought him home, he now weighs 9.8kgs (we have had him for 3 and a bit weeks now)

    Toileting - in the last few days we have had a sudden break through. A big FAT 0 mistake inside during the day for 3 days now. Night times he is managing to keep it all on the puppy pads so I'm good with that. Can't blame him at night as he cant get outside. The puppy pads are just on the inside of the door to the back yard too so he is going as close as he can to outside. He is also getting better at holding it when in the car but I think excitement plays a big part when he does have an accident as he usually does it when the kids have just gotten in the car after school and he is excited to see them.

    Biting - Max has his own toy box lol he has LOADS of chew toys inc. kongs, rope toys, soccer balls, tennis balls, squeaky hard and soft toys, toys he can rip up and destroy like empty toilet roles, heavy duty bite toys. He also has a shelf in the pantry FULL of treats and dental chews, pigs ears, dried roo tails, lamb necks, everlast rawhide chews.... Honestly he has heaps to keep himself busy and as yet hasn't tried to get at our shoes or other belongings (except a dirty sock here and there) that he knows he isn't allowed.
    He is almost under control with the biting, he understands now that "no bities" is a warning that if he keeps using teeth for play that play stops and only needs to be reminded usually with the kids, he has all but stopped trying it with me so now it only gets to the "force the issues" when he gets over excited with the running around the back yard to which he is either put inside of on the lead until he calms down again and usually that's as much as it takes now and when he comes out to play he is given the opportunity to play again but if the teeth come out a second time play stops completely for the afternoon and we all go do something really boring like watch tv. But in comparison to the start of last week he has improved 100 fold so I'm really happy.

    The cat - Jojo has asserted his place in the pack as far as max is concerned. The hissing, spitting and seeking max out has completely stopped. Max does not push Jojo's boundaries anymore and keeps his distance. He lets the cat approach him calmly now and tries to be as still as possible (very funny to watch) but max does not approach jojo. Max will walk the long way around now if jojo is in the road of where he wants to go rather then walking right past jojo. So life is a lot more peaceful now that max has learnt to just give jojo space and because he does jojo naturally gives him a "reward" by coming close enough in his own time to let Max get a sniff. I found the best way to achieve this was to make their meetings/interactions REALLY boring for them both. Instead of treating all the good behaviours and ignoring the bad (I found they both got jealous as soon as praise was given to the other and because they both want to be closest to me as soon as a pat or treat was given) I found completely ignoring both of them all together when they were in the same room has made a hell of a lot more progress. I guess they assume I'm relaxed when I'm doing boring things and not paying them intense attention so "what's the big deal?" Kind of thing. As I speak now they are both asleep within 1meter of each other in the middle of the lounge!

    Max hasn't dug any holes since I followed the advice for moth balls and heavy objects in his fav places but instead has taken to "burying" his treasures in his blankets probably finding this is better as during the night when we are all asleep he can "dig up" or uncover his treasures to appease what is probably long boring night!

    We are all absolutly smitten with our boy and his personality couldn't fit us better!

  7. #17


    Just tried to upload a photo of max and jojo in the lounge resting peacefully within reach of each other but it won't upload from the iPad for some reason

  8. #18


    Yay it worked this is pretty good for this pair so far and becoming more frequent then not. Nice and relaxed and comfortably ignoring each other!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2009


    Oh yay. You're making fantastic progress...

    He obviously wants very much to please you.

    Fun recall games...

    Hide and seek... level 1 - you sort kneel on the floor and hide a favourite toy under and curl up and hide your head. As soon as Max investigates - say Yay and reward him with the toy... If he is a bit slow to investigate - make some fun noises...

    Hide and seek level 2 - hide behind something in the garden - act super pleased when he finds you. Again - make some funny noises if you need.

    Start line stay - chase the boss...
    When he can sit and hold it for a few seconds, step about a metre from him with your back to him, look at him over your shoulder and say THREE! GO! and then you run. Where "Go" is your release word ie don't have to stay any more... some people use "OK" and some use "BREAK" ie "Break your stay"...

    reward when he catches up with a toy - careful of your fingers if he gets very excited... build up to TWO THREE GO then ONE TWO THREE GO... and then when he gets that, try to fake him out... if he falls for your fake out, laugh at him for being so silly and put him back in the sit and try again...

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    melbourne australia


    "when he fails laugh at him for being so silly"
    love it Hyacynth.

    and so much more effective, than getting impatient.

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