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Thread: 7 week old border collie pup and TOILET TRIPS AT NIGHT :(

  1. #1

    Red face 7 week old border collie pup and TOILET TRIPS AT NIGHT :(

    HI everyone,

    THis is my first time on this forum. My name is Jess. I have Luka (a 5 yr old border collie) and Harley (A 7 week old pure bred border collie puppy). I also have 2 children- a 4 yr old and a nearly 1 year old.
    I just wanted to see if someone could remind me when this toileting in the night stops with puppies? I cant remember for the life of me when my older dog stopped but i CAN remember he never went this frequently (although we got him when he was 10 weeks old and this pup we got at only 6 weeks old?).
    Harley is now 7 wks old and gets taken to do a wee and a poo at around 9:30-10pm and then gets put in his box with all his blankets in our bedroom. He goes straight to sleep but then will wake every 1.5 - 2hrs (maybe 3 if really lucky!!!) to go out for a wee. He then goes right back to sleep when i put him back into his box and normally starts the day at 6am. That is all fine, but my kids have been waking me too lately lol and i am absolutely knacked. Anyway- i am happy to get up with him in the night cause i love him to bits and he is soooo beautiful but i was just wondering if anyone can tell me how i can get him to sleep longer without weeing or if it's normal to be this frequent as he is only really young? OR do i have a bad 'routine' going by having him in my room? (although we never had probs with our other dog in our room from a pup).

    THanks in advance!!!! ANy advice would u muchly appreciated

    Jess

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Welcome Jess

    I am very worried about your puppy - because I feel puppies should stay with their litter mates until about 8 weeks old. This is also an ANKC requirement for all pedigree puppies. And your puppy should have been microchipped (law in qld) before you took it home. But most vets won't do this until the puppy is 8 weeks old.

    How old should a puppy be before they are adopted/purchased? - RSPCA Australia knowledgebase

    Puppies should be able to hold on all night by about 14 weeks. I got mine at 10 weeks old from AWL - I don't know much about her background before that except they did have her when she was 8 weeks along with the rest of her litter (not sure about the mum).

    So given she didn't get any toilet training before I got her, I took her out at 10:30pm and acted boring until she had performed, and then I set the alarm for two more wake up calls in the night eg 1am and 4am, I also rigged a lead that went from her collar under me and attached to the other side of the bed so she couldn't leave her bed without waking me up. I gradually extended the time between breaks at night to longer and longer until we could go all night without having to get up.

    And I was super vigilant at home. She was either in a crate or I was watching her. The instant she put her nose down to sniff - I took her outside. And when she woke up - we went outside, and when she had finished dinner or play we went out side. And every two hours we went out side (I set timers for this too). I was super super vigilant about this for the first three months I had her.

    We had very few accidents inside. Eventually the only accidents we had were when she had a tummy upset, and changing her food and stopping her from eating bones unsupervised (have to take them away when she starts busting them up) fixed that too.

    My dog still sleeps in my room next to my bed. I wouldn't try to change this until the puppy is at least three months old too.

    My mum also has a rule of thumb (guideline like) - that a puppy should get 5 minutes of exercise per month of age in one session. this means when a puppy is not quite 2 months old, the longest walk you'd take it on would be 10 minutes. And then you'd let it rest. Exercising a puppy for too long at once can put stress on the joints which can cause problems later.

    And everything else you've forgotten about having a puppy is here.
    Dog Training Digital Textbook | Dog Star Daily

  3. #3

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    Hi there,
    The breeder said that they dont normally let their pups go before 8 weeks but the mums milk had dried up so they would let the litter go earlier (only cause i asked?). We got him last saturday when he was 6 weeks 3 days old, and he will be 7 weeks tomorrow.... and he was microchipped before we got him.... this is making me worry. He has seemed fine since we got him home, very happy and eating all his food etc. He's playing happily and never cries.

    Should i b worried we have him too young????????

    We dont have any accidents inside through the day as he is outside with my other dog and we play lots outside but in the arvo he comes in until we go to bed when i then take him into our room. We take him out lots and he even goes out on his own to do a wee on the grass (in saying that we still watch him closely to ensure that he isnt going to do an accident inside). I feel confident with the toileting when we are up but i cant help but feel like he is waking me too often in the night. For instance he was awake until 10pm last night. Did a wee and a poo then put him to bed. By 11:35pm he was crying to do a wee... then again at 2am, 4:30am and then 6am...... i am drained. I dont want him sleeping anywhere else but in my room but if i set an alarm before he wakes there is no point in even trying to get to sleep as he wakes so often....???

    We got our other BC from the AWL at 10 weeks too and he picked up TT so fast and i never had to get up like this. I"m sure he slept thru pretty quickly as well.....

    Thanks for ur help!!!!

  4. #4
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    It would proabably have been appropriate for the breeder to have kept the litter together till 8 weeks old regardless of the the mothers milk status, that is not a sound reason, what has that got to do with anything?. They should have been weaned anyway. Sounds like a dodgy breeder trying to offload the puppies with a stupid and invalid excuse because they were too lazy to put in the hard yards of feeding and caring for the puppies for another 2 weeks. It is illegal for a registered breeder to do this. A good breeder would be carefully spending time socialising the puppies and allowing them to stay together.

    6 weeks is really too young and this could be why he is needing to go so often. The other reason could be a urinary tract infection. I would keep and eye on how often he is going. My pups have usually got by with once during the night but they have all been 8 weeks plus.

    Anyway it is done now and he will proably be fine, you just have to make allowances for the fact that he was too young and just may need to go a bit more often as his bladder develops. If it continues to be a problem I would be inclined to take him in to your vet for a general once over.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 04-30-2013 at 02:32 PM.

  5. #5
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    The other BC will help as they will model toilet training, but, the puppy will not have the bladder control yet. My BC was 95% reliable by 12 weeks but she was particularly good by my previous efforts with other dogs..lol She suddenly 'got it' when I visited my sister one weekend when she was 11 weeks old and Maggie followed her dog around and suddenly figured it out.
    You do sound like a great dog owner, you clearly care heaps, but unfortunately children and puppies just do this to you when they are young. The puppy has a little bladder and just isn't there yet.
    Being so young is an issue but you have another dog which will help. Socialising will be important.

  6. #6
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    I understand your pain Jess! It's hard trying to function without proper sleep, but it is only for a few more weeks, so hang in there! It will pass quickly.

  7. #7
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    they dont normally let their pups go before 8 weeks but the mums milk had dried up so they would let the litter go earlier
    I agree with Kalacreek - this is a BS excuse.

    Your puppy will probably be ok - have you organised to see a vet about follow up vaccinations? I'm surprised it is microchipped already - you want the vet to check that too and make your name and contact details are on the appropriate registry - you need to do that while you are at the vet because at least one of the microchip registry sites requires the vet to confirm the details are correct.

    The main problem with getting him too young is lack of socialisation with his peers. He hasn't had a chance to learn how to play nice or how to speak dog etiquette language. You have another dog to help with that so that might be less of a problem or he may understand the rules with your family but not with any other dogs he meets. There is a balance that you need to get between getting enough socialisation and risking infection to the puppy. If he doesn't get enough (dog to dog) social skills - he may be really nasty with other dogs or get beaten up all the time because he doesn't know how to tell another dog he's friendly or read when another dog is friendly or nasty.

    If you can organise play dates with other people that have puppies or dogs that like puppies and all are vaccinated - that will help. Puppy preschool may also help. And closely supervised greets with other children will also help.

  8. #8

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    No reputable, registered, breeder would let a pup go at less than 8 weeks except under the most exceptional circumstances.

    However, in response to your question, you mention you put him in a box (?) How big is the box? does it have a top? Can he see out?

    In my experience, the best toilet training tool is a dog crate. The soft ones with an opening lid are the best. For a BC I would use nothing less than a medium size, and I sleep with the lid open. If the pup cries, I drop my hand into the crate and they usually settle down. They get lonely and insecure. Beauty of this is you do not need to fully wake up but can drift off to sleep again.

    If they do not settle down then it may need a walk.

    With all the pups we have raised, this system has them sleeping through the night within a couple of days. The rest of the house training program depends entirely on how vigilant you are.

    I tell all my students that the best way to toilet train is to use a rolled up newspaper. If your pup has an accident inside, you hold the roll in your hand, lift it up behind your head, and with a flick of the wrist, you repeatedly hit yourself in the back of the head, all the time saying "I was not watching my dog. I was not watching my dog. I was not watching my dog".
    Last edited by Nev Allen; 05-01-2013 at 02:34 PM.
    Nev Allen
    Border River Pet Resort

  9. #9
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    you repeatedly hit yourself in the back of the head
    Bob Baily recommends putting a sign up on a brick wall that says "Bang Head HERE!" for training fails.

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