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Thread: Buying a spoodle from a pet shop

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogert View Post
    Hyacinth Please lay off personal attacks. They are not constructive. Pets shops are not necessarily all bad and you are making me feel bad just by being on this site sharing my experiences
    rogert

    Quote Originally Posted by rogert View Post
    (snip) I must say I don't recall the last time I joined a forum as a new member and got such vitriol.
    You started it. Right from your first post. I can't attack you personally - I only know what you've told us. Which is very difficult for those of us who equate pet shop puppies and puppy farms with animal cruelty and dumping and very expensive vet and animal behaviourist bills.

    It may have taken you 5 years to decide about what dog to get, but it takes nearly a whole year for a responsible breeder to organise a litter of puppies - from choosing a mate, waiting for the bitch to come in season and then the pregnancy, and the puppies have to be at least 8 weeks old before you can get them. And you decide to make contact with the breeders and give them 4 months? It's not long enough. How may dog shows or competitions (obedience/agility etc) did you go to? How many times did you visit rescue/pounds?

    It took me a year and half of visiting the pound when I could and then I fluked on a puppy when the one I drove 2 hours to see, turned out to be adopted already. I learned the hard way that they were not very good at updating their websites and puppies almost never go up on the website. At least I was giving my money to people who - in my opinion - are doing the right thing by unwanted dogs and not making more of them. A rescue or pound is about the only place you're going to get an "instant puppy".

    This is an open forum. We have differing ideas about what is right, and I feel it's ok to discuss those. You can say what you want, and I can say what I want. But we don't get to call each other names - and so far, in my opinion, you're the one that's doing the name calling - just because we disagree with what you've done. I don't think forums are supposed to agree with everything every poster writes. Asking questions is good. You made your choice. Some of us are telling you why we don't like it. Take responsibility for your own actions and feelings - don't blame me or Chopper.

    By the way there are dogs that are like small huskies. For example - a Norweigan Elk hound. There's a whole group called "spitz". With all sizes. And there's a sport called sled dog racing - even in Australia. Keeping up the exercise for one of these when you won't drive more than 10 minutes for a dog might be hard - but when your son is old enough to move out and have his own dog, there is all this. In Australia, all over.
    Australian Sled Dog Assn Photo Gallery

  2. #52
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    Im sorry but it has to be said...
    ALL pet shops ARE bad!
    Do u think its healthy, whether bred in a puppy mill or not, for a 6-8 week old baby to be locked in a glass cabinet for hours/days/weeks on end with ppl tapping on the glass all day long, sitting in soiled newspaper with little to no human interaction?
    It breaks my heart every time I walk past one and I wish everyone would realize if we stop buying from pet shops, they would go out of business and this inhumane treatment of puppies/kittens would be stopped. yes you may have to wait months for a precious puppy to be bred and born but at least you know you haven't contributed to any cruelty..

    that being said the pup has been bought, its healthy and it has a loving home..thank god

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogert View Post
    Thanks to those understanding people about my situation. I was well aware of the need for all the requisite health checks. We are following the program prescribed by the pet shop regarding worming, flee control, vaccinations etc and we are enrolled in puppy school. We have met the breeder, seen pictures of the parents, read books, watched videos regarding training and coaching our 12 year old to take responsibility. I am not a geneticist so need to take the advice of others regarding hereditary issues but as a normal consumer knowing the extra issues with buying a live animal I think I have done what most people would do. I am greateful for advice regarding health and training but my forst post was not to stir but to simply tell my story and the difficulties I faced which is a message to some breeders about how they might improve their interface with consumers. I dont want to paint them as bad, simply with an issue to address. That's all. I would say finally that for all those people who have strong views about this tops it would serve you well not to go over the top with your reaction and dispense blame.
    Just a couple of points for your further information and for anyone else. The health program prescribed by the pet shop is the normal thing you do with pups and has nothing to do with if the pup is free from some of the terrible gentic conditions that can be passed on from the parents. These are the requisite health checks that you need information on.

    For example, PRA (progressive retinal atrophy) is a well known eye disease many breeds of dogs. If both parents are carriers then although they may seem normal, they can produce puppies with PRA. You probably wont know untill the adult dog starts going blind further down the track.

    When I bought my cattle dog from her breeder she supplied me with the certificates that showed neither parent was a carrier of PRA so my pup could therefore never develop PRA. My BC comes with certificates showing her parents to be clear of 4 genetic conditions common in Border collies so she is therefore clear.

    You dont need to be a genetisist. You just need to do a bit of research when you select you breed or crossbreed and then enquire if the breeder has done the appropriate genetic testing.

    This is particularly important if you are paying a lot of money otherwise the breeder is making a lot of money and not investing in the genetic health of their dogs.

    I purchased a purebred cattle dog with all the genetic testing and hip and elbow scores for $400 so if breeders of designer dogs are asking big money they should be doing all the genetic testing required or they are not ethical breeders.

    I learnt the hard way, I was one of the unlucky ones that like you probabably didnt know much about the genetic diseases and got a dog with one. I also know people that lost 2 cattle dog pups within a couple of years of purchasing them to early onset PRA.

    These hard lessons can be avoided if people understand that they need to do a bit of research and then question the breeder. Photos of the parents in no way replace meeting them and looking at their structure and experiencing ther temperaments. They also dont show you the conditions that they are kept in.

    You have done what many people do and hopefully all will be well, the chances are it will be.

    However it can just as easily swing the other way. The more people understand about these things the more pressure can be put on the less ethical breeders to do the appropriate genetic testing rather that pump out puppies with no investment in their genetic health.

    Unfortunately it often takes owning a dog with a genetic problem that surfaces down the track to really learn the lesson on how important an issue it is to the future of healthy dogs. That was the case for me anyway, so it does tend to make me want to impart this experience to other people. A dog with a genetic problem is for life and somtimes the road is expensive and heartbeaking.

    All said I wish you well with your puppy and get many years of enjoyment. If you purchase another pup down the track just keep in mind the importance of genetic testing.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 04-09-2013 at 02:14 AM.

  4. #54
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    "Unfortunately it often takes owning a dog with a genetic problem that surfaces down the track to really learn the lesson on how important an issue it is to the future of healthy dogs. That was the case for me anyway, so it does tend to make me want to impart this experience to other people. A dog with a genetic problem is for life and somtimes the road is expensive and heartbeaking."

    This is so true Kalacreek. I doubt the OP has had this experience lesson in life. Fingers crossed it does not pan out this way either.

  5. #55
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    Roger, have fun. They grow up waaaaaaaaaayyyy too fast.

    Our most recent baby is 4 in a couple of months and I am gutted at how quickly that has flown by.

    I agree with some of the other posters, and also disagree with some of the things said.

    But, I think the main thing is, you seem open to some "constructive" advice and like you want to do the right thing by your new "child". So all I can say really is HAVE FUN!!!!!! Love having fur babies round when they are young

  6. #56

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    I understand your point of view about not buying from a pet shop and only from a breeder. I bought from a pet shop because all the breeders I contacted made it too difficult for me. Others may have the same experience. The fact is pet shops are close, visible and convenient. I think the best way forward here is not to damn pet shops and to blame then for all evils but to bring them into line with the standards you expect from reputable breeders and regulate them to an acceptable standard regarding genetics, documentation, puppy care and break the puppy farm - shop relationship. It's no good making me feel bad for what I did. Far better to change the business model of shops and provide a more effective education program. It's working with cage eggs disappearing from supermarket shelves. It can work here as well.
    Our puppy is growing up fast and she is gorgeous. She is our son's dog but I seem to be doing all the work. I just wish she wouldn't bark so much.

  7. #57
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    I have only ever owned mixed breed dogs and rescues so the genetic component has always been a lottery.
    Rogert, this pup has a good home and your point about cage eggs is valid.
    All the best with your dog
    It's all been said now and I hope you will stay on the forum. We need all sorts of view points as long as they care about the dogs welfare. You clearly do.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogert View Post
    Our puppy is growing up fast and she is gorgeous. She is our son's dog but I seem to be doing all the work. I just wish she wouldn't bark so much.
    'rogert' - really pleased that you are still here and posting on the forum !

    Now - what about a photo of this very fast growing pup of yours ? Pleeaaasseeeeee !

    As far as barking is concerned - you need to look at what triggers it. Some dogs just like to hear their own voices - and then others ............ - heaps of reasons.

    Have a look at this link and you will find heaps of information - including - how to stop your pup barking:

    kikopup puppy tips - YouTube

    Good Luck !

  9. #59
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    rogert

    I do love an update.

    You're probably right - we need to make petshops a bridge to well bred puppies from responsible breeders, but we also need to somehow educate consumers that puppies are not instant commodities, ie some impulse control - because they're sure going to need that when they get the puppy home.

    The key thing about any behaviour you don't want your puppy to be doing (especially as an adult dog), is to not-reward it. This means not joining in when the puppy is barking. You must not yell (bark) at the puppy too because the puppy thinks this is you joining in and approving - just as one dog barking in the neighbourhood - will set off all its friends.

    So if my dog barks a lot and doesn't stop when I ask her to - I go grab her collar and hold until she stops, then I release to see what her choice is, and repeat as necessary... If it's really bad - she can end up with some crate time. But this is conditional on her viewing the crate as a good safe place to be - even if the freedom is somewhat limited. She gets a fair bit of her dinner in there and will go in voluntarily and on command.

    I also taught her to bark on cue. So I used a time when she naturally barks a lot - for us dinner time - and then I cue'd that and rewarded, but ignored her when I didn't "cue" the barking. So she knew how to "bark right" (on cue, get treat) and when it wasn't right (no treat). As she understood the cue, I started rewarding the pre-bark which is much quieter than her actual "gimme treat' bark. So now if I cue her to bark - it's much quieter, until I say "louder"... And then you can use her waiting for the next bark cue - to teach the "quiet" cue...

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogert View Post
    I understand your point of view about not buying from a pet shop and only from a breeder. I bought from a pet shop because all the breeders I contacted made it too difficult for me. Others may have the same experience. The fact is pet shops are close, visible and convenient. I think the best way forward here is not to damn pet shops and to blame then for all evils but to bring them into line with the standards you expect from reputable breeders and regulate them to an acceptable standard regarding genetics, documentation, puppy care and break the puppy farm - shop relationship. It's no good making me feel bad for what I did. Far better to change the business model of shops and provide a more effective education program. It's working with cage eggs disappearing from supermarket shelves. It can work here as well.
    Our puppy is growing up fast and she is gorgeous. She is our son's dog but I seem to be doing all the work. I just wish she wouldn't bark so much.
    I think it is a good sentiment but knowing how pet shops operate I doubt if it would be worth the effort for them to go through all the steps that a breeder would go through in terms of finding the right homes for puppies etc.
    The pets shops I know are small businesses that operate on a high turnover model of pups and kittens to keep profits up and are often staffed with inexperienced people. I have a friend who bred a poodle mix withanother poodle mix, sold the pups to the local pet shop for $50 each and the pet shop sold them within 2 days for $400 a pup. Cant see them wanting to change that model.

    Anyway glad you are enjoying your puppy. As to barking, is there a particular scenario that casues her to bark? excitement, bordom, separation, fear, anxiety, playfulness?

    Hya I must say that I often break all the rules when my dogs bark LOL. I shout at them but they know my tone well enough to know that I am not barking with them and they usually shut up pretty quick. They know me well though.

    With a new pup I like the grabbing the collar idea untill they quiet. With crate time it neednt be a punishment if you teach the dog that a crate is a place to relax. As to teaching a dog to bark on cue I have read that this is a way to address the problem although with multiple dogs I cant say I have ever bothered. I just read em all the riot act LOL.

    Thereare other reasons for barking which can indicate the onset of more serious behavioural problems like fearfulness and anxiety so it is good to first understand where the barking is coming from.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 06-10-2013 at 02:03 PM.

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