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Thread: Natural Rearing Border Collie Breeder?

  1. #1
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    Default Natural Rearing Border Collie Breeder?

    Hi all,

    I'm not sure if I've ever posted an intro on here or not, as I've only been lurking! Anyway, I'm Stef, I live in NSW near Port Macquarie. I have a beautiful RSPCA rescue named Dobby, who is half corgi, and I think half kelpie, but not sure. He will be 2 just before Christmas. I adopted him just before last Christmas. We are doing our first Obedience and Rally-O trial at the end of October, and will be starting Agility training in a few weeks hopefully. He's amazing =D

    Anyway, I have started doing research for my next dog, for a variety of reasons. I want a second dog, for myself, and for Dobby. He LOVES every other dog he meets, and I have enough time that I would love a second dog to train and compete in Agility with. I am thinking it will be about two years from now when I am ready for a puppy.

    The point of this is, I feed a Prey Model Raw diet, and I am anti-vaccinations, chemicals, etc. I am REALLY hoping to find a natural rearing, raw feeding breeder that does not vaccinate. Oh, and I want a Border Collie. Colour doesn't concern me at all, I just want my puppy to have the absolute best chance at having a long, healthy life. I am willing to wait to find the right breeder and the right puppy, but I figure it's not going to happen on its own, so I need to start looking, and I am not having any luck searching, so I thought I would post on here and see if anyone knows of any breeders that fit what I'm looking for.

    Thanks in advance!

    -Stef

  2. #2
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    Not sure what you mean by not vaccinating. Puppies need to be vaccinated and have their first booster at 1 year old. After that they can then go the 3 yearly. Registered breeders cannot sell unvaccinated puppies.

    Also a raw diet. A raw diet is not a simple process, it needs to be well balanced as you probably already know, the thing is for breeders that have more than just a few dogs, and most of us do, it's not always easy to keep up with a full raw diet.

    My suggestion would be to look on Dogzonline where many breeders have websites and find a breeder that you like. You can slowly transfer a pup to a raw diet, but it takes dedication for a growing puppy to get the balance right and this can make many breeders nervous. Not saying it can't be done by any means.

  3. #3
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    I am not at all having a go at you, OP, but I cannot for the life of me understand the anti-vaccination logic. I guess it is all good and well right up until the person or puppy actually gets sick.

  4. #4
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    It is simple as far as I know, if the dog is not vaccinated it can get the disease. Nothing wrong with minimizing and going for chemical free in life style and we do raw diet as well.
    Having said that rather than get Maggie vaccinated every year I will pay to get her blood checked (titres?) so hopefully won't need to do it after the first year.
    Nice to hear from someone else who wants the best for their pup. Lots here..

  5. #5
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    best chance at having a long, healthy life
    This would be a vaccinated dog. There's plenty of parvo out there and it's a nasty way for a dog to die and totally preventable. You might want to vaccinate less often for some of the diseases (parvo, distemper and one more) but kennel cough (and one other) need doing every year. You can do an immunity (titre) test before deciding when and what to vaccinate, but no vaccination - just asking for a slow horrible dog death.

    As for no chemicals? I hate when people say that and what they really mean is no toxic chemicals. And there's plenty of naturally toxic chemicals out there. Eg Angel's Trumpet plant - extremely toxic.

    And I'm not sure what natural rearing is - maybe what my dog does when she's wrestling with a golden retriever?

  6. #6
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    I think you will have a hard time finding an ethical breeder that does not vaccinate. My guess is it would probably go against the Code of Ethics for both the breed club and ANKC. Would you also have trouble getting the dog into competitions (if agility is what you are wanting to do?) as I am sure most clubs would require all dogs to be up to date in vaccinations? You could also never kennel your dog if you needed to go away.

    I personally wouldn't risk it, parvo can be anywhere.

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

  7. #7
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    Jadielee87 makes a very good point. Most obedience clubs require you to present a vaccination certificate when you join up. A good vet, generally a known breeder vet will sign the vaccination records for 3 years no problem.

    Most of us over vaccinate our dogs in Australia because we haven't caught up to the rest of the world and the vets like our money. But non vaccination is to send us back into the dark ages.

    Canine Cough is not deadly to a healthy dog and the vaccine only lasts about 6 months and doesn't cover all strains anyway. Much like the human flu. Most of my dogs have built an immunity to it.

    Same with heartworm it requires certain conditions to be viable. I don't treat heartworm year round, it's not a preventative medicine so no need to treat in the winter months when heartworm can't exist, but ignore it completely is not the answer either.

    I'm all for lowering the nasty chemicals we pump into our dogs, I think it's a good thing.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    This would be a vaccinated dog. There's plenty of parvo out there and it's a nasty way for a dog to die and totally preventable. You might want to vaccinate less often for some of the diseases (parvo, distemper and one more) but kennel cough (and one other) need doing every year. You can do an immunity (titre) test before deciding when and what to vaccinate, but no vaccination - just asking for a slow horrible dog death.

    As for no chemicals? I hate when people say that and what they really mean is no toxic chemicals. And there's plenty of naturally toxic chemicals out there. Eg Angel's Trumpet plant - extremely toxic.

    And I'm not sure what natural rearing is - maybe what my dog does when she's wrestling with a golden retriever?
    I apologise - I should have said no TOXIC chemicals, you are very right that there are natural chemicals out there as well. My mistake.

    As far as the vaccinating goes, I'm really not here to get into a debate about it, but I will happily link to many articles and studies done about the dangers of vaccines, and natural immunity, if you all wish - in my spare time of course! Parvo is curable, and I feel (based on my research) that intoroducing the vaccine into the puppy's body is giving them a higher chance of getting the disease than allowing the dog to develop natural immunity by introducing them to things slowly and in a controlled manner. I believe that I have the resources to treat any condition or disease that my dog may acquire with natural and holistic means, without the use of harsh (toxic) chemicals.

    As far as getting into competitions goes, if I am unable to compete in agility trials with an unvaccinated dog, then I would happily run my own agility course at home, and that would be enough for me, and my dog. I am not willing to put my pet's health at risk for my personal enjoyment.

    As far as kenneling my dog is conerned, that is not an issue, as I never have and never will kennel a dog. I have wonderful friends, family, and neighbours who are very willing and able to look after my dogs anytime we are away.

    MAC - I understand about the raw diet needing to be balanced - my Dobby is currently on a raw diet, and I am constantly reevaluating to ensure that I am doing the best possible by him. There is always more to learn, and I'm trying to stay as up to date as possible with all of the information. You are exactly right about Kennel Cough, and that the vaccine is ineffective and does not cover all the strains. Kennel Cough is also easily treatable naturally and holistically. As for heartworm, I no longer use preventative, but I plan on having a heartworm test done every 6 months to make sure that he is negative. If he tests positive, I will treat naturally and holistically. As for worms, again, there are natural treatments/preventatives for worms, although I have not needed to use any with the raw diet he's on.

    I can fully understand and appreciate that everyone has their own views on this, and that a lot of you may disagree with my choices. They are, however, very informed and educated choices, and I am sticking by them. I would love to find a like-minded breeder. I know of quite a few in America, and I am hoping to find one here as well.

    Thank you all for your time.

  9. #9
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    Pardon me, but I watched a dog die of parvo, a vaccination CANNOT be worse

  10. #10
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    When we bought Molly home from the RSPCA, she had kennel cough (symptoms didn't show until the next day) and she was very very sick.. So miserable, very runny nose, she couldn't sleep because of the coughing, we couldn't sleep because of the coughing, she was vomiting, off her food etc etc. Just a very sick, unhappy dog. I know thar CK vaccinations don't cover every strain of it, but thankfully Meika's vaccination stopped her catching it from Molly so we only had 1 sick dog to deal with, not two. Each to their own really but I'm definitely going to keep vaccinating for KC if it means I never have to see one of them that sick again.

    Quote Originally Posted by creek817 View Post
    Parvo is curable
    Quote Originally Posted by creek817 View Post
    I believe that I have the resources to treat any condition or disease that my dog may acquire with natural and holistic means, without the use of harsh (toxic) chemicals.
    Quote Originally Posted by creek817 View Post
    Kennel Cough is also easily treatable naturally and holistically. As for heartworm, I no longer use preventative, but I plan on having a heartworm test done every 6 months to make sure that he is negative. If he tests positive, I will treat naturally and holistically.
    Isn't prevention better than cure?

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