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Thread: Natural Rearing Border Collie Breeder?

  1. #21


    OP please please please vaccinate your dogs. They have a much greater chance of dying from one of the many preventable diseases out there, than they do of having an adverse reaction from a vaccine. You owe it to your dogs to keep them safe from disease - remember that naturally in the wild they would not die of old age, but from disease or injury. The natural method only works to an extent. A modern environment is far from natural and disease can spread quickly through populations of dogs.

    If you truly want your dogs to live the longest life they can, please vaccinate them. The arguments against vaccination are myths - a functioning vaccine does not cause the disease it prevents, and the chemicals in a vaccine are not toxic and pass harmlessly through a dog's system. Don't be stubborn and please look at the objective facts. Don't make a point by gambling with your dogs' lives.

    I would also ask that in return, you respect my (very researched) opinion.
    I would very much like to see this research, could you direct me to some of the sites you've been reading?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Lorne, NSW


    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    Im not pro vaccination either for my human or canine wards. and use bloods to check anti bodies, and environmental exposure, so you are not alone.

    I also feed raw. And share your concerns for the filth that is called dog food. But again, each to their own, and my apologies to all the 'Chappie' buyers out there.
    Each to their own

    Have you tried online vegetarian community? They tend to share our views on vaccinating and you might find one there.
    But to be honest, it is unlikely.

    So, for the gestation and weaning period, you may have to accept a pup that's been exposed to everything the dam/sire and owners bring to pup, AND that first Vaccination.

    Or go to an unregistered breeder. IN which case you will increase your other risks.
    Good luck!
    Thanks Bernie - I am going to continue my search, but, as you said, I may have to compromise a bit. I just really want to find a breeder that is on board, as I hope to form a lasting relationship with the breeder I choose. I don't want to be sneaky, and buy a puppy and hide the fact that I don't plan to vaccinate. I would love to find a breeder that at least supports minimal vaccinations, if I can't find one that support no vaccinations. I have also just had someone very kindly link to some homeopathic vaccinations, which I am going to start doing some research on. If they are going to be safer, I may try to find a breeder that is willing to vaccinate with those instead of traditional vaccines.

    Thanks for the online vegetarian community suggestion - I will give it a look!

    And yes, I do not want to risk the other possible health problems that can be easily tested for by going to a BYB. Unfortunately, it's looking like I may have to budge somewhere, I just have to decide how much I'm willing to do without constantly feeling guilty about what I've done to my puppy.

    Feeding raw is never a question - that will be done for the rest of my life, I will NEVER go back to kibble. But, if the breeder doesn't feed raw, I don't see that as a HUGE problem, as any kibble toxins shouldn't last too long in a young puppy once it gets switched to raw =)

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2009


    We do need to question what we do and make our own decisions...

    And it's good to be cautious about new products on the market (medical or otherwise) - sometimes the studies on side effects and benefits get fudged in a way that's not good for any of us. Eg the Thalidamide problem.

    But arguing that all vaccinations are bad - is on a par with arguing that smoking is harmless and climate change is not affected by human activity or carbon dioxide levels. It's not consistent with the best science available currently.

    I'm willing to bet Alaskan dogs are vaccinated against rabies - where there is no current need to do that in Australia.

    I'm also totally against chicken pox parties where people take their children to parties to get infected deliberately. It's true that chicken pox in most children - is less harmful than in adults. But chicken pox leads to risk of subsequent infections like shingles - which - apart from being extremely unpleasant and painful when your immune system is already down (Eg cancer), can cause blindness and other problems. And the rate of complications from the vaccine is much lower than the rate of complications from having the full blown disease.

    Parvo is not easily treated or cured. And it is easily prevented. If you want to be selective about how often you vaccinate for it - that's probably a good thing but to not vaccinate at all - with what I know about it - not in my dog's best interest.

    And personally - I've been vaccinated against TB but failed the immunity test - and I'm not willing to get vaccinated again - because it can take 7 vaccinations and still not pass the immunity test (medical students do this). I don't know if that makes me naturally immune or not but I'm not willing to put up with 2 years of a festering sore on my arm again.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Rural NSW


    Bernie...what is a chappie buyer?????

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Geelong, Vic


    I think you need to research more on what 'toxins' actually are. You are severely putting your animals at risk with your current ideals. I'm sorry but Parvo is not 'curable'. You provide enough supportive therapy and hope the pup pulls through. Adult dogs that have had vaccinations should have little to no risk of parvo, your dog will always be at risk of it AND distemper. Distemper also has no cure, you hope they pull through without permanent neuralogical damage or die quickly. No dog school or trial will accept you as your dog will be a great health risk to others. These diseases are virus based, NOT bacterial and hence wipe out animals very quickly due to their mode of infection and spreading. Viruses hijack the bodies systems in order to multiply, most will take over cells in the body, use the cells own mechanisms to create it's own proteins and then explodes the cell when it has made enough.

    2 to 3 vaccines as a pup and one a year after the last, then every 3 years is an acceptable alternative. Homeopathics are NOT vaccinations, they create no immunity in the dog they simply work on trying to help prevent the person/animal become affected. Conventional vaccines stimulate the immune system to create immunoglobulins and memory cells that live in the immune system and are ready to rid the body of an infectious agent before it manifests as a disease. Even Homeopathic Associations will not guarentee that their system is anywhere near effective as a conventional vaccine, that would be negligence. Most of your vaccine information is based on the effects of the Rabies vaccine, particularly in the USA which tends to be quite harsh on dogs. Also some states use C5-C9 vaccines, you should at least comprimise for a C3 which is Parvo, Distemper and Hepatitis.

    As for heart worm, it cannot be cured with homeopathic medicine either. There is a great risk of damaging cardiac tissue and the vascular system quickly, have a research on alternative products available safe for Border Collies and seasonality due to weather preventing the development of the parasite in the carriers.

    I prefer a more natural way with my dogs, I do not use heartworm products, flea treatments, worm my dogs (herbal is available) but I do vaccinate the bare minimum. After having a dog almost die in my arms with Parvo because I got it inadequately vaccinated I will never go through that again. Your pup needs to be socialised and trained for its MENTAL HEALTH. You're becoming obsessed with the physical health when you have to remember the two go hand in hand. Two science degrees and almost a decade in the pet/veterinary industry I think I've done enough research to make a properly informed decision about weighing up the risks.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    melbourne australia


    Quote Originally Posted by Di_dee1 View Post
    Bernie...what is a chappie buyer?????
    Cheap tin dog food

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