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Thread: Picking the right puppy

  1. #21
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    On another forum I am on, a new member is there asking for advice as her pet shop puppy has had $3000 spent on it so far. She loves the pup so very much and wishes to do the very best for it. As with so much of our population, they have no idea what goes on behind the scenes and only see that cute little face in the window. Good psychology eh which brings out the "rescue" side of our personalities. Take one of them out of that situation or impulse buy.That only encourages breeding to fuel the demand.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekhbet View Post
    honey Bi llab ong Cr eek Farm is a puppy farm - they breed dogs on mass at an exhorberant pricetag and have online ordering. The only places you will find Spoodles is backyard breeders, puppy farms or pet stores thats the end of that story. That breeder also says nothing about genetic health testing of parents but 'F1 vigour'. Basically it means the parents can be carriers/suffering a recessive disease but crossing means it probably wont show up in the puppies because they only carry one copy of the gene. As for 'health tests' unless you see the parents have been genetically tested and see proof from a vet clinic, a 'health test' of a vet looking over the dog is NOT good enough particularly for the price charged.

    Gippsland in particular seems to be full of puppy farms. You have your heart set on a spaniel x poodle, so go do it properly. If you want a dog go see the parents and proof they are raised and socialised properly, see the health tests on paper and see the conditions they come from. Don't believe a glossy website.
    I had a look at the site and it seem to be online buying. Lots of words and the kennels may well be clean and nice, but I could see no mention of testing for the genetic diseases that affect the various breeds involved. The most I have ever paid for a pedigree dog was $700 for my showline BC and she came with ED and HD scores of both parents and certificates showing both parents genetically normal for CEA/CH and clear of the CL mutation. Her parents were also test clear of TNS.

    This would be important if the 2 breeds used to create a cross have a problem common to both breeds. I dont know much about any of the breeds used so cant answer that one. I do know that hip dysplasia though is common across many breeds. Various structural problems are also common.

    I would expect for the price they are asking that the breeding stock have all been tested and structurally assessed and have the appropriate paper work. I would want to know a whole lot more, before I forked out serious money.

    As to F1 vigour - didnt help my friends oodle with the severe hip dysplasia.
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 08-18-2012 at 06:25 PM. Reason: degoogle the quote

  3. #23
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    Those who know me would know that I am normally a passionate defender of people's right to want to buy a crossbreed and of breeders to breed them.

    But this post makes me just go: "Pfff, if you clearly can't be bothered to educate yourself on what the pitfalls are, your good intentions are just empty ." And all because you absolutely want a dog that has some vague physical characteristics and/or is fashionable. Because I agree with the others that you cannot make many predictions about what kind of dog you're getting (though must say that the few spoodles I know are recognisable as such), that the non-shedding is false advertising and that the dog's temperament will be just as unpredictable as any bitsa's.

    If you absolutely want a crossbreed and don't want to make the effort to find a good breeder, go to a shelter and find one there. If you absolutely want that puppy farm pup, you can probably find a rescued one at the RSPCA for a fraction of the price. And at least you are supporting the RSPCA and not some piece of scum puppy farmer.

    I though at first that you would have enough morals to actually follow through on making sure you only buy from an ethical breeder, which I think could be a step in the right direction to reduce the number of innocent victims of this whole spoodle craze. But looks like I was wrong.

    That was a pretty out of character rant, but just bleh.

  4. #24
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    Okay, I may be wrong here but I suspect that Paul doesnt fully understand perhaps the gravity of what we are trying to tell him.

    I knew nothing about elbow dysplasia (FCP) untill I ended up with a dog with this condition. This sort of galvanised me into action and I have come along way since then. It was a bitter way to learn about genetic conditions. I now make it my business to learn about the genetic conditions that are common to my chosen breed and seek breeders that take these things seriously in their breeding program.

    The same goes for good structure and temperament and also their philosophy and breeding goals regardless if they are breeding showline, working or crossbreds.

    The general dog buying public is easily duped by cute faces and often all reason goes out the window and they want to believe the selling hype. They desperately want that cute face that they have set their hearts on. In many cases things work out fine but unfortunately in many other cases they dont and that unfortunately is often where the learning begins and unfortunately there are many casualties along the way.
    Just ask my friend who is a specialist surgical vet as to how many problems come to her as a result of poor breeding.

    There is only one way to be an ethical breeder and this has been listed ad nauseum in this thread.

    Paul either choses this way or he doesnt. There is no in between however much you want to believe the sugar coating. A breeder is either ethical or they are not.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 08-18-2012 at 04:52 PM.

  5. #25
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    I have only had rescue dogs, and I am willing to take the risk of one of them having a genetic condition. Though I am always hoping that the crosses I get have enough of a mix of breeds to seriously dilute the chance of having the common breed-specific defects, if you know what I mean. But I did not in any way support or encourage the person who was responsible for breeding wmy weird bitsa (who was undoubtedly an accident but that's another story). If she gets HD and I end up having to pay thousands on vets, to me that is part of the whole adopting a rescue package and I can live with that.

    But buying from the types of breeders that the spoodles in this post come from is to actively encourage a breeder to breed pups without proper health checking, who is unlikely to breed for temperament, who probably doesn't care much about the quality of life of their breeding dogs and - this one I find most disturbing - who does not care what happens to the pups once they leave their care.

    You only have to follow one of the rescue groups on social media to know just how many unwanted dogs there are out there. The least a breeder can do is to do everything they can to make sure they don't add any more to that number...

  6. #26
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    The pretty website puppy mill.

    A pretty website is not a guarantee of a quality breeder with the best interests of their dogs, puppies or buyers in mind.

    having a council licence does not mean they're doing the right thing by the dogs. It just means you paid the council a lot of money. Councils rarely follow up or inspect the premises once they are up and running. Often they never inspect. They used to - maybe 20 years ago or longer, but not any more.

    East Gippsland is notorious for puppy mills where the dogs are kept in horrific conditions. RSPCA are trying to crack down on them and they're being closed at the rate of about one a month. But it can be hard to prove if you can't get permission to inspect.

    The one you liked - shows no dog exercise areas, or dogs interacting with humans - just a lot of empty cages.

    They make a lot of promises they can't keep about the temperament, coats and health of the animals . They also mention F4 and F5 generation crosses - ie spoodle x spoodle - once you start doing that - you lose "hybrid vigor" if it was ever there to start with. with that there is a 1 in 4 chance of getting hybrid decrepitude instead. And that's higher if the genetics of the parents had a common defect.

    They mention a 1 year health guarantee - but no details. So this is like a promise not made in writing. Trouble with this is - that once people take a dog home - and they know it will be killed (Put to Sleep) if they return it for health problems - they won't return it. Or they will decide they can't handle it after the guarantee is up. Some health problems don't show up in the first year either.

    Pet shop puppy problems - that I've seen in other people's dogs - most of whom would never buy from a pet shop again.
    aggressive towards other dogs - so you can't take it for walks in public places.
    blind
    deaf
    spine problems (trouble moving the back end)
    hip and other joint problems
    coat problems - sheds a lot or requires frequent clipping (every 6 to 8 weeks).
    dental problems - a friend's dog recently had 17 teeth out. Several others have severe bite problems and bad breath.
    scared of new people - because you can't take it out for walks to meet new people... this can be a major problem at the vet (they will sedate the dog and charge you extra for it).

    But some vets like these dogs - because they're good for the vet's bottom line. Some vets even run puppy farms. Good and bad people in every industry.
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 08-18-2012 at 06:28 PM.

  7. #27
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    Just going to degoogle the brand name.

  8. #28
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    I think they tried too hard on that website to prove they are not a puppy mill (I personally dont know if they are or not, but red flags were flying high)

    It shouldnt need so many words if they just set out clear and simple a few basic facts of what an ethical breeder really delivers. It was a web of words that gave no answers to the really important questions and unfortunately many people dont know what the important questions are, they are given security and justification by all those words.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 08-18-2012 at 11:35 PM.

  9. #29
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    Don't rule out the rescues, there are so many pups there looking for homes and I have seen many poodle crosses. If you talk to foster carers you can find young pups too - most of the adds online are for older dogs or older pups because they are in need of immediate homes, but if you call around you will find what you are looking for, or be put on a waiting list. I know from experience - my Pip is a rescue puppy, we got her at 12 weeks. She was never advertised because they picked me off the waiting list. She is a Chi x JRT, so I guess she could be classed as a "designer breed".

    I commend you for at least considering the advise that is offered here - many people get defensive and refuse to listen. Seems you really care about your potential pup, but I think you need to educate yourself a little more about puppy farms and the like. A google search will bring up plenty of information.

    Best of luck!

  10. #30

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    Thanks so much everyone, I appreciate your patience with me.

    We are refusing to compromise and so until we can find a breeder we can go and meet and view etc, therefore we may never get the spoodle we want.

    We went to see some beautiful lagottos today, which are looking like a good option, if we can save enough to afford one!

    Thanks again everyone.

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