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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    The ice age wiped everything out.

    Logically, there is no way that we can't be causing damage when we are plundering our eco system. Nature works on a tight balance. We have dammed rivers, caused others to salinate, we kill our fauna and animals, wipe out species, introduce species where they weren't before, poison our oceans and waterways and fill our air with chemicals.

    The cane toad is an example of balance that was tampered with, as are rabbits in this country.

    Remember those butterfly wings in the deep dark amazon...........
    I agree with you Anne re the problems, but the carbon tax is going to help 'how'? The carbon tax is going to do zilch in relation to all the things you mentioned, cut the dam walls, let the water run where it is meant to, there is so much being done now to cut the pollution, why don't we just keep heading down that track? no, because the Govt needs to raise money somehow, they can't up the GST because they have to have agreement with all States, and that is not going to happen any time soon, hence the carbon tax. It is a tax no matter which way you look at it. (BTW I don't necessarily support either of the major parties)

  2. #12

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    I don't think we are having that much of an effect on global warming, the next ice age and all that jazz...
    Every x amount of years the earth has undergone drastic changes, even without the presence of human life... we just happen to be witnessing the start of the next one right now. Only difference is, we now have the technology to be able to survive it.

  3. #13
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    And you only need a volcano to erupt in Iceland and Chili and all that we do is not relative anymore...........Or a few Summer forest fires anywhere in the world
    Pets are forever

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty View Post
    I agree with you Anne re the problems, but the carbon tax is going to help 'how'? The carbon tax is going to do zilch in relation to all the things you mentioned, cut the dam walls, let the water run where it is meant to, there is so much being done now to cut the pollution, why don't we just keep heading down that track? no, because the Govt needs to raise money somehow, they can't up the GST because they have to have agreement with all States, and that is not going to happen any time soon, hence the carbon tax. It is a tax no matter which way you look at it. (BTW I don't necessarily support either of the major parties)
    Carbon tax is not a people tax. It is purely a business tax. GST is a people tax. Income tax is a people tax. Not carbon tax. "We" are not being taxed.

    The tax will help by forcing big business to pay for their lacklustre response to their responsibilites to our environment. They either make definite moves to cut greenhouse emissions and use less fossil fuel, or they pay more to run their business.

    This tax is coming regardless of it being now, or with another Gov in power in a couple of years time.

    The debate surrounding this gov reform is very reminiscent of the GST debate. Governments came and went, people protested, we were going to be poor and worse off and it still came in. End result, we aren't any worse off and it was going to be either political party that was going to bring it, regardless of their 'pre-election' promises.
    Last edited by Anne; 08-09-2011 at 08:14 AM.
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    Carbon tax is not a people tax. It is purely a business tax. GST is a people tax. Income tax is a people tax. Not carbon tax. "We" are not being taxed.

    The tax will help by forcing big business to pay for their lacklustre response to their responsibilites to our environment. They either make definite moves to cut greenhouse emissions and use less fossil fuel, or they pay more to run their business.

    This tax is coming regardless of it being now, or with another Gov in power in a couple of years time.

    The debate surrounding this gov reform is very reminiscent of the GST debate. Governments came and went, people protested, we were going to be poor and worse off and it still came in. End result, we aren't any worse off and it was going to be either political party that was going to bring it, regardless of their 'pre-election' promises.
    I'm sorry Anne but I have to disagree with the carbon tax not affecting the people, do you think that any tax past onto these big businesses are not going to filter down to the 'people'??? the people will be paying for every $ that those companies have to pay, indirectly of course, but we will be paying for it. Those big businesses in question have to keep their investors happy or they have no business. Cheers

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty View Post
    I'm sorry Anne but I have to disagree with the carbon tax not affecting the people, do you think that any tax past onto these big businesses are not going to filter down to the 'people'??? the people will be paying for every $ that those companies have to pay, indirectly of course, but we will be paying for it. Those big businesses in question have to keep their investors happy or they have no business. Cheers
    I didn't say it wouldn't affect the public.

    In my last post, I was clarifying the fact that it is a tax on business. There is a lot of confusion surrounding the tax and many people think they will be paying extra tax.

    As I said earleir though, I am personally happy to pay a few dollars extra if it means that our environment will benefit.
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  7. #17
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    how exactly is the environment benefitting? the same companies will still pollute jsut as much, we will jsut be paying for their tax...... another goverment scam.....

  8. #18
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    The incentive is that they will have to pay for that pollution though. They can't pass the cost 100% off to consumers as no-one would buy their product so it will come out of their profits. They only way they will be able to rectify their lost profit is to change their business practices so that they pollute less and use less fossil fuel.

    People in Government in Australia are normal people like you and I doing a job. Some are great business minds, some lean toward the green side and others are plainly not suited to the job. They're not out to scam us. They're out to perform their work, just as you or I do everyday in our jobs. They perosnally don't earn anymore if we pay more at the bowser or whatever. It simply means they have more money in their coffers that ultimately benefit us via way of infrastructure, health etc.
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  9. #19
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    have a look at the state of the roads in sydney, the hospital cruisis our state is going through at teh moment..... im currently working on a new hospital which is alot bigger then the one its replacing but it ends up being 1 more bed then the old one...so really we arent benefitting alot..... sure 1 bed, but at the cost for this building...i think not.

    people wont stop buying products cos of the carbon tax, they will grin and bear it like we do with everythign else we get shafted on..... the fuel tax is a joke.... most of the petrol price we pay is taxed... then we pay GST on top of it...... we pay tax on a tax... how is that possible...... sure they arent out to scam us, but they are trying to make a dollar out of us...without increasing the minimum wage... the cost of living keeps going up but wages etc dont........ that will be what wipes out humanity......

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by reyzor View Post
    ... the cost of living keeps going up but wages etc dont........ that will be what wipes out humanity......
    I feel your frustration, and yes, the system has issues but this statement above is simply not true.

    We, in fact, one of the luckiest countries when it comes to personal wealth. Australians enjoy an incredibly high standard of living. Our inflation rate sits between 2 and 3%.

    The article I have taken this from is an interesting read;

    Consumer Living Standard 1900 - 2000
    This article takes a brief look at how the relative prices of many of today's common items have changed since Federation. To assist in making comparisons, 1901 prices have been multiplied by a factor of 50 to take account of general inflation. The purchasing power of one pound (or $2.00) in 1901 is equivalent to about $100 in 2001. The 1901 prices in this article (which were originally measured in pounds, shillings and pence) have been converted to decimal amounts. Likewise, imperial measurements of quantity have been converted to their metric equivalents.


    In 1901, the average weekly wage for an adult male was about $4.35 for a working week of almost 50 hours, which after inflation equates to $217.50. However, wages have grown much faster than inflation, with the average weekly ordinary time earnings for adult males in May 2000 being about $830.00 for around 37 hours work, in far better conditions.

    The price of gold has often been used as a measure of inflation. At Federation, the price of gold was $8.50 an ounce, or $425.00 in today's money. The actual price of gold in 1999- 2000 averaged about $460.00 an ounce, showing that it has generally maintained pace with inflation.
    It is only referring to wages at the turn of our current centruy, but this figure hasn't altered a great deal either way.

    We have a beautiful lifestyle here in Australia, it isn't doom and gloom. Our economy is very strong, you only need to look at what happened during the recent GEC to see this. Our successive Governments have been succesful in managing and leading our country.
    Last edited by Anne; 08-10-2011 at 12:39 PM.
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

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