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Thread: The Training is Slipping for Others in Family.

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default The Training is Slipping for Others in Family.

    Hi Steve
    i have a question.
    When Bernie was a pup, all cute fluffly and cuddly. My daughter 14yrs old, doted on him. Was interested and played along with NILF and TOT when feeding.
    Now a year old. He's disobedient to her. Because he can get away with it, she's not consistent, as she's no longer interested in helping with training.

    The likelihood, of getting a teenage girl re-interested in anything less than the human male is zilch currently. She has other fish to fry. So im unlikely to get her retrained to be honest. Though i have asked her repeatedly, to not give any commands she cant be arsed to enforce, she still does it. And rather than leave him disobedient, when i see, im making him complete the task she set him, ie " on your bed", "sit" etc.

    He allready, does a sloppy retrieve for my husband. The out is about 6 feet away. Whereas mine is at my feet. He doesnt 'out' immediately for my husband, but mine is instant, as is the reward of a re throw once outed.

    So, 3 questions.
    1. Is there any merit in me making him complete tasks, that my dauther or husband gives, then the dog doesnt carry through? (i do this to complete the chain of command as i worrry he'll forget if he doesnt complete the request and leak this onto MY training.
    2. Will his disobedience to her, or anyone else that doesnt complete the command sequence become a problem for my handling of him? So far, he tends to obey me more than any other anyhow, but id not be happy if he started getting picky as to when he responds to me.

    A finally, a word of your worldly advice please: I got this breed/ dog to do obedience with at competition level. Also, compared to rotties, a GSD needs more working, so i hoped it would increase my activity and fitness level now middle age is here. Well ive lost a stone in weight since i had him, so 50% success!

    Obedience Classes: That has not worked out. He hates obedience training. He's bored stiff, tail down, head down, bored. Once the intitial excitement of Wow, look at all these new dogs to round up, let go! is tempered with "ready to work?" question, then an hour of mindless repitition of dull exercises, he's down in the dumps. A breeder at the club, advised that he has very high drives, give him a year and come back, they take a while to mature, he's too high drive right now for strict training, try when a year old.
    So, a year old, ive been trying to be more structured in the training, and stretch his focus time for mindless repititious work he'd have to do at the club. Within 5 mins, he's no longer lit up, he's plodding, offerring sunday sits etc.
    Stop that, get the frizbee out, and he lights up immediately and becomes super fast sit dog.
    Should i just give up? And bow down to frizbee training.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Kurrajong / Hawkesbury
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    Hi Steve
    i have a question.
    When Bernie was a pup, all cute fluffly and cuddly. My daughter 14yrs old, doted on him. Was interested and played along with NILF and TOT when feeding.
    Now a year old. He's disobedient to her. Because he can get away with it, she's not consistent, as she's no longer interested in helping with training.

    The likelihood, of getting a teenage girl re-interested in anything less than the human male is zilch currently. She has other fish to fry. So im unlikely to get her retrained to be honest. Though i have asked her repeatedly, to not give any commands she cant be arsed to enforce, she still does it. And rather than leave him disobedient, when i see, im making him complete the task she set him, ie " on your bed", "sit" etc.
    S: I think Bernie that anyone that has a partner or kids that dont plan on ensuring a command is carried out will end up in the same place as you are.

    In my experience, when the dog is in the section where the dog is learning the exercise this is not helpful at all, but if the dog knows the exercise, the reinforcement schedule and the consequences (if any) I havent found it to make much of any difference.

    He allready, does a sloppy retrieve for my husband. The out is about 6 feet away. Whereas mine is at my feet. He doesnt 'out' immediately for my husband, but mine is instant, as is the reward of a re throw once outed.
    S: If you are ever going to be training a formal (competitive) retrieve, I personally wouldnt allow anyone to throw the retrieved item (dumbell). If not then I am not sure how much it matters?
    So, 3 questions.
    1. Is there any merit in me making him complete tasks, that my dauther or husband gives, then the dog doesnt carry through? (i do this to complete the chain of command as i worrry he'll forget if he doesnt complete the request and leak this onto MY training.
    S: If they are known exercises, then no I wouldnt bother, I dont think it will help and I also dont think it will hurt.

    2. Will his disobedience to her, or anyone else that doesnt complete the command sequence become a problem for my handling of him? So far, he tends to obey me more than any other anyhow, but id not be happy if he started getting picky as to when he responds to me.
    S: No but that gap will likely widen, meaning the compliance to your daughter will probably deminish to none. Meaning she will lose the privilidge of taking the dog out and or having control of it.

    A finally, a word of your worldly advice please: I got this breed/ dog to do obedience with at competition level. Also, compared to rotties, a GSD needs more working, so i hoped it would increase my activity and fitness level now middle age is here. Well ive lost a stone in weight since i had him, so 50% success!
    S: well done!

    Obedience Classes: That has not worked out. He hates obedience training. He's bored stiff, tail down, head down, bored. Once the intitial excitement of Wow, look at all these new dogs to round up, let go! is tempered with "ready to work?" question, then an hour of mindless repitition of dull exercises, he's down in the dumps.
    S: well many dogs suffer the same thing, training via repetition doesnt really envolve drive satisfaction for dogs and this alone can be a problem, and it usually results in a very flat dog that wont compete anyway.

    A breeder at the club, advised that he has very high drives, give him a year and come back, they take a while to mature, he's too high drive right now for strict training, try when a year old.
    S: well I personally think that is rubbish, but thats my opinion, what I feel will happen is that, in the 12 months your waiting, your dog will learn ways to satisfy that drive which will likely be undesirable things like small animal chasing etc.

    These will then need to be corrected which often results in the loss if drive, which is the whole reason you got this breed and it is hardly fare to correct him for somethuing we let him learn...

    But this is a common belief, I just dont subscribe to it. I train my dogs in drive from the moment I have them (7.5 - 8 weeks)

    So, a year old, ive been trying to be more structured in the training, and stretch his focus time for mindless repititious work he'd have to do at the club. Within 5 mins, he's no longer lit up, he's plodding, offerring sunday sits etc.
    S: Yep this is unfortunately becoming conditioned now, your dog is predicting a boring time and adjusts his motivation accordingly.

    Stop that, get the frizbee out, and he lights up immediately and becomes super fast sit dog.
    Should i just give up? And bow down to frizbee training.
    S: remember that, frisbee training is your form of drive work, and training in drive is the number one way to train competitive and working dogs today. It isnt bowing down.

    What I do with my Training in drive clients is get a foundation started and trained at home with some exercises inc, then we encourage them to go back to clubs and train their using my techniques, it works really well.

    We just had a girl in Adelaide take out the ring in her very first ever trial with her high drive dog...

    You can also look in the discussions on our Facebook page to see many of them talking about the training packages and see their videos.

    I sure would not waste his young drive if it were me...
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    melbourne australia
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    Thanks Steve.
    practical and sound advice that answers all the questions!
    Bernie

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