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Thread: Bull Arab- aggression

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    South Of Brisbane
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    Default Bull Arab- aggression

    Hello all,
    a little background to help with advice-

    I got panda bear (BULL ARAB) at age of 3-4mo, she was emaciated, neglected, no intereaction with other animals apart from her "family- mum/dad/brother" and she was very shy. I slowly started to introduce her to the world outside of a backyard. She was great, showed slight aggression to other animals but that was to be expected.

    (I was living in NSW at the time for work and moved back to QLD in jan 12)

    11 months ago I introduced her to my cattle x kelpie and at first their was a few little fights but thats normal when introducing 2 females. They became a pack together and everything was great until about 2-3 months ago when they started having more frequent arguements ect now i have been bitten a few times and so has my husband. (We are not overly worried about this as no-one else has been bitten except a trespasser)

    I was wondering if anyone else has been through this and what advise can you give? I do not want to have to give her away or put her to sleep which is some of the advice so far. Are there many other options on a limited budget?


    We have been to k9 trainers and tried various methods..My husbands family trains Gsds for a living and even working their ways has not worked at the moment the only effective thing is separating them (we have 2 yards) and allowing only small periods of time together.

  2. #2

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    Hi,

    sounds like your Bull Arab was deprived of some important learning experiences during her early development. Dogs that are abused or neglected as puppies or taken from their mothers too early frequently exibit aggression towards other dogs because they never learned how to relate - things like sharing, interpreting body language, fitting in with the heirarchy, etc.

    Unfortunately I have no good news for you, your dog will never be 100% trustworthy with other dogs and the best you can do is reward her with treats and praise whenever she behaves nicely around others, and lead walking her for hours beside your cattle x kelpie. If you are getting bitten during these fights this is cause for serious alarm and you need to put in as much effort as possible towards her rehab. This dog is going to be with you for the next 10-15 years of your life, you should not settle for anything less than the best behaviour she is capable of.

    What methods has your husband's family tried on her?

  3. #3
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    Apr 2012
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    did the fighting start when you introduced the new pup (Apache) to your pack? How do the 2 girls get on with him?

  4. #4

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    The combination of 2 females and an undersocialised dog is never a good one. Unfortunately when bitches fight they can turn to hating each other and will kill each other (bitch means what it does for a reason).

    I have a similar situation my older dog a Bull Arab mix is undersocialised, my younger dog a Pitt mix is very well socialised. Both females. When the youngest got to about 10 months old the older started snarking at her and finally after 3 months of the older dog snarking the younger decided to go back and gave her a good bite on the face. After that I separated them complete for a good 8 - 9 months up until recently, I have started to let them spend time together again now (only when I am home) and they are getting along great guns, I would still never leave them alone together when I am not there.
    I think the thing that made the major difference was separating them before it escalated into something more serious and then waiting until the younger dog had reached full maturity (I think the major cause of snarks was the younger being an adolescent, the older had no patience for her, now the younger is a really well socialised mature dog who communicates really effectively with other dogs).

    Separating is your best option at the moment. I would recommend you try to speak with a behavioural trainer also. Unfortunately with dogs behavioural issues don't get better they get worse and you are yet to see the worst with the younger dog as they don't reach social maturity until 18 months/2 years and this is when true issues will escalate if nothing is done now.

    I can give you the details of a behavioural trainer here in Brisbane if you want, even to have a chat to first and see what your options are.

  5. #5
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    Aug 2009
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    Adelaide
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    that was to be expected
    a few little fights but thats normal
    These two phrases - make me think that maybe you allowed unacceptable behaviour hoping it would go away by itself. Sometimes that happens with a dog that has learned the rules but not with one that has been isolated and maltreated. That dog has learned to fight for survival and doesn't read other dogs or animals well and you need to train it what is and isn't ok.

    I don't mean scolding it (or hitting it or yanking it around by the neck) when it behaves unacceptably. I mean limiting its opportunity to do so. Stopping it if it starts or before it starts - ie when you see the new thing or big distraction - there's your chance to prevent bad behaviour before the dog even thinks of it, and give it a whole new way of looking at things it might have previously seen as threats.

    Unfortunately - now it has learned that it can behave badly - and you have a problem to retrain. GSD trainers - are notorious for using a lot of aversives (yelling, yanking, hitting) and not much reward (praise, treats, play, pats). This isn't helping your dog - but you already know that.

    Reward based training (praise, treats, play, games, pats, fun times) is the most reliable way to retrain a dog - especially a aggressive one. And you probably need some help with someone who is skilled at preventing bad behaviour before it starts - before the dog thinks of it. And skilled at training you.

    The book "control unleashed" by Leslie McDevitt - and well timed "LAT" (Look at That) training may help. But you're going to need to work at a sufficient distance away from bad behaviour triggers (other dogs, horses, bicycles, joggers, screaming model airplanes), that your dog can still pay attention to you. If your dog is overwhelmed and over exicted about the distraction (CHICKEN TREAT LADY - WANT NOW!!!! ) - you're too close and the dog can't learn anything. If you punish the dog at this point - the dog may (usually) blame the distraction for the punishment and try to attack it next time it sees it.

  6. #6
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    South Of Brisbane
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    Unfortunately Panda Bear was put to sleep on sunday due to injuries sustained in a fight.. She was suffering and we did the only humane thing we knew and went to the RSPCA, spoke to them and :'( sadly due to the extent of the injuries she was too far gone...

    The first time the 2 bitches met, there was no issues at all... they got along great, they were alone together for approx 7 months with no issues at all. It was a least a month AFTER we got appache that the issues between the 2 bitches started.. they both got along great with appache just not each other..

    On sunday, we re-introduced the dogs to each other after being separated for a week, there was no issues to the point we were able to sit inside and have no dramas... Then i later walked outside and lit a smoke... still no drama then my husband walked outside and (excuse the swearing) SHIT hit the fan and they were going crazy.. NOTHING we tried could separated them except my husband grabbing the bull arab and me with the kelpie and.. unlocking there jaws and swiftly moving them away from each other ASAP.. we check both dogs over and i realised the bull arab was seriously injured.. :'( by this time i was hysterical and my partner just told me that panda had bitten him again... So i called the emergancy vet close to mine.. they wanted NOTHING to do with me or my dogs cause we couldnt pay straight away... and then rang RSPCA.... Panda had puncture wounds all over her head, throat and a large deep wound directly above her right eye.. I cleaned her up the best i could but she was already too far gone...She was scared and in pain... I wanted her out of pain asap.

    Rest in Peace
    Panda Bear
    16-2-11 to 11-11-12
    aww.jpg

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by grevillea47 View Post
    did the fighting start when you introduced the new pup (Apache) to your pack? How do the 2 girls get on with him?
    They got along great, never had a fight with him..they all used to play great together.. :"(

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    These two phrases - make me think that maybe you allowed unacceptable behaviour hoping it would go away by itself. Sometimes that happens with a dog that has learned the rules but not with one that has been isolated and maltreated. That dog has learned to fight for survival and doesn't read other dogs or animals well and you need to train it what is and isn't ok.

    I don't mean scolding it (or hitting it or yanking it around by the neck) when it behaves unacceptably. I mean limiting its opportunity to do so. Stopping it if it starts or before it starts - ie when you see the new thing or big distraction - there's your chance to prevent bad behaviour before the dog even thinks of it, and give it a whole new way of looking at things it might have previously seen as threats.

    Unfortunately - now it has learned that it can behave badly - and you have a problem to retrain. GSD trainers - are notorious for using a lot of aversives (yelling, yanking, hitting) and not much reward (praise, treats, play, pats). This isn't helping your dog - but you already know that.

    Reward based training (praise, treats, play, games, pats, fun times) is the most reliable way to retrain a dog - especially a aggressive one. And you probably need some help with someone who is skilled at preventing bad behaviour before it starts - before the dog thinks of it. And skilled at training you.

    The book "control unleashed" by Leslie McDevitt - and well timed "LAT" (Look at That) training may help. But you're going to need to work at a sufficient distance away from bad behaviour triggers (other dogs, horses, bicycles, joggers, screaming model airplanes), that your dog can still pay attention to you. If your dog is overwhelmed and over exicted about the distraction (CHICKEN TREAT LADY - WANT NOW!!!! ) - you're too close and the dog can't learn anything. If you punish the dog at this point - the dog may (usually) blame the distraction for the punishment and try to attack it next time it sees it.

    I never allowed to the bitches to fight when i stated 'that its normal and to be expected' I meant from a dog who had be neglected and under socialised, its a actually known that the animal may be slightly aggressive when adjusting to a new situation... Not to be surprised it that does happen..
    It cannot be expected that the animal will adjust instantly without dramas!

    Also Ive never hit my bull arab as she is a rescue dog!!! Ive only ever put her on a short run lead for 1/2 hr when she misbehaved,told her to go to bed or not said hello to her straight away when i walked outside.. she knew she was in trouble when i raised my voice only slightly higher then normal
    Last edited by Mrs_Boundy; 11-12-2012 at 09:43 PM.

  9. #9
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    I never allowed to the bitches to fight when i stated 'that its normal and to be expected' I meant from a dog who had be neglected and under socialised, its a actually known that the animal may be slightly aggressive when adjusting to a new situation... Not to be surprised it that does happen..
    It cannot be expected that the animal will adjust instantly without dramas!
    Allowing dogs to sort themselves out relationship wise is never a good idea no matter the background. Your dog started out on a bad foot with the other bitch and your bull arab finally matured enough to really get in there for a fight. Rescue dogs should not be fighting, no dog should. I have 5 at my house at the moment and no one is allowed to look crooked at the other one.

    I'm sorry you lost your dog to this situation, I know what a dog fight is like and it sticks with you.

  10. #10
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    My sympathy, you absolutely did the best you could cleaning up someone else's mess and took in a difficult job. It would have been so traumatic. Sometimes the worst does happen.

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