Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: Thanks

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    4,292

    Default Thanks

    My daughter was telling me a story today about her dad's new dog that reminded me of just how much I have learnt from this forum.

    Her dad - my ex - had a dog when we got married. She was a great dog and very well behaved and trained. But he used the old "just show them who's boss" method. If she ever disobeyed him, he'd roll her over, pin her down and growl in her face. And that was pretty much all there was to it. She was about 7 or 8 when I met her and we said goodbye to her when she was 15.

    I got my dog Luna just before she died. And because I had no experience at all in dog training, I just followed his method. In hindsight, a huge mistake. I punished my dog for not coming when called, punished her for accidents in the house, etc. I feel really guilty for some of the things I did to her now. But at the time, I thought I was a pretty good dog owner and trainer. My dog was calm and well behaved and people who met us out walking were impressed at the level of control I had over her.

    And she did have a great life in lots of ways. She got walked lots, went on lots of adventures with me and was always by my side when possible.

    But then I got Banjo and decided I needed to educate myself on dog training and that's how I got here. I took most of the advice I got here on board and used it as a starting point to do more reading. And what a difference it has made. Not only is Banjo well behaved and trained, but I actually enjoyed doing it. We are still working on the jumping up on other people - but I finally know what does work and I hope to now see improvement very soon - so other people don't really get to see what an awesome dog she is as much as with Luna, who just had a calm nature.

    But that was my story and I wanted to say thanks to all you wonderful dog owners and trainers for being so inspiring and motivating me to become a better dog owner. I look at the dog owner I was before I got Banjo and the kind of owner I am now and I am so happy I decided to learn and change.

    PS: the story my daughter told me today was that her dad and his wife will roll their young dog over and pin her down when they come home and discover she has MOVED her bed (she has shredded one before). And of course I tsk, tsk and think they're idiots. I'm sure their dog will be well behaved (though don't think she'll stop destroying things because of their response!), but I reckon mine is happier. My ex once tied my old dog Luna up outside during a thunder storm because she wouldn't listen to him. My dog was absolutely petrified of thunder! That was the last time I ever left her in his care.

  2. #2

    Default

    Education is a great thing but only if we are able to listen, learn AND apply what we learn.

    I shudder when I admit that I was once a choke chain trainer but 15 years ago I saw the light HELLALUYA! I was saved by the clicker and taken into the light.

    A lot of people still believe in the choker and adversive training and they will tell you it works for them and it probably does and produces the type of dog they think they want but, having experienced the difference in temperment on the dog I had trained with a choke chain when I switched to a clicker, you will never ever convince me the old ways are better.
    Nev Allen
    Border River Pet Resort

  3. #3

    Default

    Yes Nev Allen, I agree with you that 'education is a great thing but only if we are able to listen, learn AND apply what we learn.' but most importantly - as long as it suits our particular situation and is relevant !

    I really would like to laugh at your response - Nev Allen - but I really can't ! What you have said is so so true ! You having a 'HELLALUYA!' moment - a lot like what I have gone through !

    Thirty some years ago - dog training - what dog training ! My first pup was barely 5 weeks old when I bought her home for the first time. With the information I got from the breeder at that stage - all I could do was say - yeah thanks - but then very quietly to myself - thinking - what the hell do I do now when I bring her home !

    Even 13 or 14 years ago - when training your pup was what you needed to do - yes - laws were changing - but training really was 'reef and jerk' - choker collar was the way to go ! Maybe I was just not too bright about dog trainers - but for me at that stage in my dog ownership life - starting again after a big break - was - that the trainer said that my voice was not low enough or loud enough to discipline my pup and make him do what he needed to do ! So, I had to change my sex to be able to train a pup ?

    Yes that pup was a show pony - not successful - did win a prize for obedience.

    But the most important thing I learnt was - that - pups have better hearing than we do. So why would you yell or scream at a dog to do what you want ? This then got me to the stage that there was a better way to do things.

    So with all the so-called 'pro's' out there with regard to dog training - I use what I want or need in different circumstances regarding what pup I have in my life at that specific stage. Have any of my pups (have number 5 now) attacked or bitten anyone or any other dog - No !

    So - the only time I roll my pup over is when I need more room in bed or when I need to do his ears or nails !

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    12,583

    Default

    pinning a dog down and growling at it - does get a lot of humans bitten. I feel sad for the dogs that get treated that way. And I'm not sure how I'd feel about leaving a child with someone who trains a dog that way either. I guess you don't get a lot of choice when it comes to custody agreements.

    Hopefully your daughter will learn by your example and maybe start asking questions at Dad's place about the old school methods ie how is yelling at the dog gawd knows how long after the deed was done - going to connect the dots in the dog's head?

    Adversive based training - is slow training and ruins the relationship with the "boss". About as much fun as living in Putin's Russia.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    melbourne australia
    Posts
    3,082

    Default

    I too have gained so much info from this and other forums.
    It leads to further reading, and trials, not always successful, in new strategies. But the learning is fun.

    Pinning dogs down and growling should get a lot of owners bitten, but why oh why, did they never bite my dad? just once id love to see him come a cropper from his crap training methods, but the bastard has always had impeccably behaved dogs using this method! grrrrrr

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    4,292

    Default

    Yeah, my ex's previous dog was gorgeous and well behaved too.

    And my daughter has been on this journey towards not just reward based training, but a better understanding of how a dog's mind works with me, which is why she comes home complaining about their methods. She knows full well it is not the right way to treat a dog. But she also realises no one is going to take advice from a 7yo on how to train their dog.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Rural Western Australia
    Posts
    2,637

    Default

    I think back to my first dog and I think we all trained with the older methods to some degree. My first dog was also very well behaved and was probably one of the best dogs I ever had and we had a wonderful realtionship. But I also certainly regret somethings I did to her as a pup, like punishing for accidents in the house etc. I cant say I ever rolled her, mm maybe once or twice gently as a pup, but I wish I knew what I did now. By the time I got my second dog I was starting to question the methods and try different things and these days with access to the internet etc the learning has escalated.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Southern NSW
    Posts
    3,784

    Default

    I have always felt lucky to have had the parents i did...Everyone called my parents the "way out there" people..my Father treated dogs in a way that was way ahead of the times and the same with the horses, because they both really loved animals.....My DAd was a very early user of whistle (just like clicker) training, because he had seen a Scotsman do it in Scotland for distance training and at the early California Sea world on the sea lions and dolphins..he was ahead by many years. he also had "check-chains, but he popped, way before it was what people did. And he always wanted a loose lead.
    Our GSD's were known as the friendly ones and loved by the Police and RAAF. I do now think that some people allow their dogs to rule them though..that seems to be the most common behavioural problem I see and deal with...you can be a kind leader. A dog loves good leadership, it makes them feel secure. You can see that when you do home visits...you show a dog a bit of leadership and they hang around you like you are their new best friend.
    I am just getting very interested and learning about a new leadership system, that i rather like. It is giving the dogs a reliable environment, with good leadership. I like it when they say "A leader is the quiet confident one, a bully is still a bully".....it is amazing that when you give good Leadership, not submissive down is ever done, nothing aggressive or aversive.......But it all makes sense to the dog as we are using the simpler dog language. As I have studied dogs so much, this makes so much sense to me
    Pets are forever

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    4,292

    Default

    I always wanted a dog that I could take places. To me they are like a real family member and if I could I would always have my dog by my side. Maybe that's why I am single.

    So letting them rule the roost was never an option. But I really struggled with this 'the owner has to be the alpha male' idea. It is also much harder for women to get their heads round and to implement, I reckon. And I remember hearing the low voice thing too, from my step dad whose family ran a GSD training club when he was young. I think for most women, who really are not used to this whole sizing up, flexing your muscles attitude, it is just often confusing and frustrating.

    While I think the more subtle psychological methods are much more intuitive to women. Provided you are open to trying to understand the dog mind.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Southern NSW
    Posts
    3,784

    Default

    My hubby has a real way with both horses and dogs........it is to do with the macho part. they need to be able to let it go

    Leadership is essential, but it does not equal dominating. I have observed Horse herd and found herds that had a aggressive dominating Stallion, they do not last..the quiet, but firm stallions are followed much more willingly and there is less tension in the herd and not this constant fight for the top position, even if the leader has an injury, they will stay with him.

    Second hand studies ( I love these) from the Yellowstone Wolves has shown the same and other animal studies...........the in charge dominant alpha males and females did not last as long as the more easygoing alpha male and female. The groups worked much better. It is even the same for humans...it has been proved which companies do better with kind and fair management. Dominance might work in the short term, but they will not get the following/commitment
    Pets are forever

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •