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Thread: Yet another rant - People who buy from puppy mills

  1. #41
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    I personally don't get the anti poodle thing that many people seem to have, a dog is a dog is a dog and must fit my lifestyle and what I have to offer.

    Helloworld thank you for your post, very interesting reading and I'm sure you will be very happy with your LR, a wondeful breed I did briefly think about myself, especially as I already have a Setter and they are shown in the same ring, but unfortunately I'm pretty crap at grooming and the LR takes a bit of effort for the show ring. I did however recently visit a friends litter of LR and they amazed me at how quickly they were up and moving and barking around the whelping box.

    For those people who are attracted to the labrador part of a lab x poodle there is always the curly coated retriever, which is a nice steady dog.

  2. #42

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    Poodles cop as much rap as pitbulls... Just in the opposite direction, they're always seen as prissy little fru-fru dogs. Mine grew up with Great Danes, so he thinks he is one

    Curly coats are nice, as are Irish water Spaniels, very similar to a poodle but much stockier, with a more substantial head. Poodles really shouldn't have fine little wizzly heads though, that's incorrect, but it's how most people picture them.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nev Allen View Post
    This is something that puzzles me completely. I get it that these puppy farms ask such ludicerous prices simply because they can. But why would anybody pay that when they can get a pedigreed poodle for less than half that price, or rescue one for a couple of hundred to cover S/n and jabs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lala View Post
    I dont think its ridiculous to pay those amounts.

    Why wouldnt you pay that much for a member of the family? Someone you can love unconditionally and who will love you back.
    I would certainly pay that if it was proven to me that dog came from thoughtfully bred, health tested parents so that there was an excellent chance that I would not have to spend thousands of dollars on corrective surgery for hip dysplasia or patella luxation, nor would the pup be likely suffer from eye or heart diseases. I would not like to spend that money if I thought it was funding a puppy farm where broodstock are not treated with due love and care.

    I say to everyone, if you are determined to buy a baby puppy, do your reasearch and find out what diseases are common to its breed or mix of breed. Then find out if the parents have been tested, and if so, what those test scores are. Your research will have shown you acceptable test scores for breeding stock. If the parents have not been tested, or if the scores are below par, run a mile. Simple as that.

    Otherwise you may be shelling out thousands of extra dollars on treatment, or worse, having to put the pup to sleep and then you will have to come up with the money for another.
    Last edited by RuralPug; 05-29-2012 at 05:31 PM. Reason: double quote (blush)

  4. #44
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    Look at this .......It is quite a surprise, not shocking, but to the point

    Bluespring Valley Dog Breeders
    Pets are forever

  5. #45
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    Oh man, I had the dog and the 3 cats lying on my bed when I played that video and they all jumped up in a panic. The cats ended up all running away... Banjo just had to lick my face.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    This is actually against ANKC rules. Bitches are not supposed to have litters more often than every 18 months, and are not supposed to be bred until they reach a minimum age. And I think there is a maximum age too.

    Given that ANKC registers all these dogs - they should be able to tell who is breaching the code of ethics fairly easily and expell them or refuse to register the litters.

    But I know there are plenty of dodgy ANKC breeders. At least they have a code of ethics, it would be nice if their breeders were expected to stick to them. State governments are starting to make some of the "ethics" into law. But who knows who will be responsible for enforcing that and whether any resources will be allocated to make it happen.
    ANKC registered breeders can and do have 70 dogs and produce the max amount of litters in a year, there is nothing in the code of ethics to regulate how many dogs they breed or how many litters per year, only the litters 6+ per bitch that are registered.

    Your right hyacinth, Ankc does have a minimum age for breeding, it is 12 MONTHS old (or as SUGGESTED but not ENFORCED by breed groups, and a maximum breeding age of 5 years or older if you have permission from a vet. And they do allow 2 LITTERS in 18 months which can be consecutive. And they can have 6 litters per bitch (ANKC), more if they have a vet cert and approval from their member body.

    Cavaliers are predisposed to some horrific genetic conditions, with over 80% of cavaliers in Australia seriously affected with most dying prematurely from MVD!! That is shocking stats for any breed.
    Buyers are buying puppies who will more likely require expensive heart medications for half their life, and live to only an adverage of 7 years.

    International breeding guidelines protocal, which was researched and approved by specialist veterinary neurologists and cardiologists worlwide suggests breeders immediatley cease breeding from Cavaliers under the age of 5 years (male and female), as signs of MVD and SM usually appear before then, and only if at 5 years they are SM or MVD symptom free.

    If Cavaliers have been MVD and SM free for 3 generations then then a minimum of 2.5 years is required for breeding in those cases.

    Cavalier clubs and the ANKC in Australia have decided against using these guidelines ....Why?

    A few months ago, once again, as I do every couple of years, I emailed the CCCQ to ask what there current updated suggestions are for breeding amongst there ANKC and CCCQ members, they are always suspicious when I ask questions about breeding ages, health checks etc of cavaliers ...why? But nothing had changed from the last contact.

    Here is the latest reply from the president ....

    Dogs Qld rules can give you all the info you need on what age and frequency restrictions there are for breeding, and I can then give you my opinion only given the club has no rules. However common sense in Cavaliers indicate you would not use a girl for breeding until around 18+ months of age ideally. Although you can mate a bitch on 2 consecutive seasons you would not do this too young and after that you would let them have at least one clear season (also a Dogs Qld rule). After 5 you need a vet clearance to breed further, and again no bitch should have more than 4 litters in her lifetime maximum.


    Rules are enforceable by Dogs Qld and they check upon registration of the puppies.

    Currently there are no health checks required for registering of Cavaliers with Dogs Qld nor for showing, and we as breeders rely solely on people doing the right thing for the future health of the breed. This may change in the future. As a club, we advocate appropriate health testing to improve the health of the breed, and also encourage not breeding from lines known to carry problems, sadly as I said there are always those for whom the $$$ are more important. As a club, we educate and promote wherever possible!!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Dog Queensland rules, she has quoted above...just refer back to ANKC codes or breed groups so the same ages apply.

    MVD, mostly occurs in Cavs before 5 years. At 5, and MVD or SM they have a very good chance of remaining free of these horrific conditions, yet the groups who are percieved to be improving the health of dogs and cavaliers are not even SUGGESTING breeders take the advice given by specialists.

    I certainly cant speak for all breeds and i belive there are a few breed groups enforcing change on breeders but the health of Cavaliers is one close to my heart and I dont believe breed groups have the health of the breed as their first concern.

    This is why I was impressed with the ALA, their code of ethics appears enforceable with the majority of the code reflecting health issues and the requiremnent of health testing by all breeding members.
    The ANKC and breed groups do not require health testing prior to breeding or showing?

    I guess this is why i get ansy when people hold these groups out on a pedestal as the pinacle of ethical breeding. These groups clearly do not have the breeds health issues a priority, and the "code of ethics" have very few, and watered down health requirements and clearly most of the ethics pertain to showing.

    Sorry for the rant yet again, but Cavaliers and the health of the breed is something very close to my heart.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfsie View Post
    Look at this .......It is quite a surprise, not shocking, but to the point

    Bluespring Valley Dog Breeders
    That is so VERY wrong and so sad, they are in bird size cages...what is wrong with people.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  8. #48
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    The labradoodle farm in tassie desex these poor babies at 7 weeks and are definately not members of the Australian labradoodle assoc, so obviousley they are not willing to adhere to there strict health/testing policy.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  9. #49
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    It's not a pedestal, it's a starting point! There is a very good thread that Hy started that basically states - find your breed, then find your breeder. Someone with the same ideals.

    I don't know any registered breeder who owns the same amount of dogs or breeds the same amount of litters as puppy farmers and I've been in and out of the show ring since 1988, in 3 different group rings.

    Some breeds do have to be older than 12 months. We must sell puppies on limited register at the very least so all litters are registered, anyone that is doing otherwise is, yes, just a puppy farmer hiding under the banner of the ANKC and flouting the rules. If the purchaser does their homework and does not buy their dog on a whim, asks appropriate questions etc about their breed they will find the right registered breeder for them.

    I am currently in the process of buying a puppy, I have been to both vet puppy appointments with the breeder, have viewed the health testing/screening of the parents for a couple of health problems that may be in the breed, though non are a required test all by simply doing my homework. However though getting back to Crested's original post, regardless of how much information is either out there or in this case given to someone by a person who would know these things people still make bad choices, mainly for the purpose of having puppy NOW.
    Last edited by MAC; 05-31-2012 at 01:27 PM.

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