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Thread: Yet another rant - People who buy from puppy mills

  1. #31

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    LOL Turns out hat $500 discount wasn't much of a discount at all.
    On top of the normal fee they also charge $60 for microchipping. $40 for worming, $40 for the booklet you have to buy, $100 GST plus other charges.

    Just found out this guy shot the other neighbors cat because it came in his yard and if his chickens get sick he just goes out and breaks their necks... Charming fellow.

  2. #32
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    Imagine what he is doing with sick puppies and past it breeders then? Oops there I go making assumptions again

    I just looked at there website and there is no mention (that i could find ) of them being registered with the ALA. Now if there not, why not?

    I wasnt aware until yesterday that the Australian Labradoodle Association have very strict obligations to being a member.

    All breeding stock of registered members needs to have accurate hip/eye/elbow gtg/gss using the prcd-PRA Dna eye tests done before mating with records to be handed in to the assoc.

    http://www.laa.org.au/downloads_08/a...ons%202007.pdf
    The Australian Labradoodle Association

    And these are enforced with fines and penalties.

    So really, this is a major step forward for the health of dogs and I was quite impressed. You cant be a member of this assoc unless you extensively health test and you cant breed or register puppies without it.
    They are also talks with the ANKC to formally recognise labradoodles as a breed.

    So these tassy breeders are not members....WHY?
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  3. #33

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    Crested_Love - this saga just goes from bad to worse !

  4. #34
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    Nov 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crested_Love View Post
    LOL Turns out hat $500 discount wasn't much of a discount at all.
    On top of the normal fee they also charge $60 for microchipping. $40 for worming, $40 for the booklet you have to buy, $100 GST plus other charges.

    Just found out this guy shot the other neighbors cat because it came in his yard and if his chickens get sick he just goes out and breaks their necks... Charming fellow.
    sounds like marraige material...what a douche

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lala View Post
    Yea thats true, but from what I have seen of people, most just dont fully understand.

    They get the concept, but they just dont fully GET it, if that makes sense. It can take a while to sink in.


    I dont think there are many who would truly not care once they fully understood
    Hello world!
    This is my first post here and Im conscious of posting in such a 'controversial' thread to begin with but I wanted to give you my perspective from somebody who nearly bought a poodle mix from a puppy mill. Yes I said nearly - put the pitchforks away for a second! lol. I will expose my stupidity and ignorance, warts and all in exchange for the hope that someone will read this who might have been thinking in the same way as me. All I ask is that you read this in its entirety if you choose to reply.

    Im an animal lover of all kinds. My earliest recollection of 'trauma' was as a toddler when my mum accidentally killed a baby spider I had found and I cried for two days, literally. Im not particularly stupid or uneducated or irresponsible. I would be the last person you would think would even dream of buying from a puppy mill. So why did I nearly do it?

    I think this fascination with poodle mixes boils down to two misconceptions, one being that the dog will not drop hair and two that by mixing a poodle with another breed you will take the poodle out of the result, everything except the desirable non shedding coat. People want the non shedding part but they dont want the precious part, which is what the general misconception of a poodle is. That is why they simply dont get a poodle as most suggest. They perceive this breed to be pretentious, difficult and fragile. On top of that a poodle is somewhat slender looking when shaved adding to its fragile look. I used to say I want a dog that doesnt look like its going to break its legs chasing a ball.
    Some people might have a friend who has a poodle mix and they think this dog is great, they think that they can have the same pup with the same traits. Some people dont consider simple genetics and dont realise straight away that you cant pick and choose traits in a mix puppy and are mislead by the puppy farm websites that make you believe that they can.

    For me I always admired a dog in the park from afar. A medium sized poodle mix, the most majestic yet rugged dog you ever did see. Strong, driven and loyal, he is a beauty. I observed him chase down a ball jumping a small barrier into the ocean, when he emerged from the water I gasped at his strength and determination to bring that ball back. I was frankly in awe of him. I never spoke with the owner, most times they seemed so focused on each other that it would have been rude to interrupt. Whenever I went to the park I would look for this dog and in my head I had named him Alpha.

    I dont believe that people now days get a poodle mix for fashion. If people were only getting poodle mixes because they were trendy than the fad would have gone by now. The current cool dog is a french bull dog. I dont see poodle mix owners trading in for french bull dogs. It boils down to the misconception that poodle mixes do not shed. That is a major component of the decision making process, its doesnt shed and its not a poodle. The puppy mills found an untapped market and combined with a really quite impressive marketing they began to rake in the cash.

    When I started researching poodle mixes and reading forums, I quickly started to see the dark side of where allot of these pups come from BUT as I read, I often came across a post from a purest who would call the dogs mutts, mongrels and so forth. This would trigger my 'help the underdog' instinct. I would read these posts and often dismiss them as soon as the poster referred to the animal as being inferior to a pure breed. I detested this and challenged it in my mind. In my mind all animals are beautiful, I was often turned off by the hatred displayed by humans for the mix breed dog and those kinds of posts spurred me. In other words, I was confused by people attacking the dog and it made me defensive for the dog. It took me a long time to realise that mutt or mongrel did not necessarily mean bad, that it could just be a description but on initial read to the layman they come across like swear words and put downs. Sometimes when I was reminded of the horror of puppy mills it would fuel my desire to get a cross breed simply to save it from the torture described. Yes perpetuating the cycle. Its a big can of emotional worms, a journey where I started to find all sorts of justifications in my mind to find a dog just like Alpha even if it came from a puppy mill. It was a struggle to come to a place where I finally crossed off the puppy mill from my list because I wanted it so bad. I wanted to believe the dream they peddled through the encouraging words on their website, that they were working towards a better a breed, a standard and consistency. When I realised this dream is a rouge to make money I fell back to thinking I would be saving a puppy from these Frankensteiners. What a wonderful emotional money trap, serving no one except the breeder taking my money, yet in my mind, justifiable in order to save a life. It took some emotional maturity to figure that I was being selfish. It finally sunk in that I was not helping anyone except the mill so I turned to the next suggestion after people say 'get a poodle' comes... go to a shelter. I looked a little at shelters initially, I was brought up that dogs come from shelters, not breeders, mill or otherwise but the dropping hair part has always been the deal breaker. Admittedly i didn't look very hard the first time because there didnt seem to be very many poodle mixes so I turned to the breeder idea, once the breeder was knocked out of the equation I turned back to searching shelters.

    Heres why searching shelters doesnt help people looking for the 'ideal poodle mix' and why they dont find one. I was looking for a low shedding and robust looking dog. The shelters rarely had poodle mixes (compared to other mixes like staffy) and when they did they were definitely more of one of the breeds than the other, mostly 'other' over poodle. They all looked different. They dropped hair. None looked like Alpha. I became depressed, angry at myself for not just taking one of the dogs from the shelter and dealing with the allergies and hair and saving its life but I knew in my heart that it truly wasnt responsible if I wasnt 110% on board. I would leave upset allot.
    So I searched, and searched and searched.... It finally sunk in over time that the bigger picture looks like this:
    Anyone who gets a poodle mix has likely paid allot of money for it, they are generally good hearted well intentioned people and when they discover that the dog doesnt have all the traits they hoped they dont dump them, they still love them, they have bonded so they pour money into them when they get sick or invest in dog training when they appear a bit psycho because in general they started with good intentions. They tell their friends what a wonderful dog they have and bury the guilt deeply when they realise their mistake. Or if they struggled to pay for them in the first instance they struggle to find a way to keep them. The smaller percentage who dump them are the ones who shouldnt have ever had a dog regardless of breed or mix. So the dumped ones are the randoms containing a whole range of the anomalies you can get from breeding two different breeds in the early generations. Say one of these randoms is the 'ideal poodle mix', well he was adopted yesterday because its so very rare or he was never dumped at all, hes the one you see at the park with the happy owner and the example that you look to when you say 'that poodle mix is a great dog'. That is why you dont ever find the 'ideal poodle mix' at shelters. They are rare and when they exist they rarely get dumped.

    I became a bit depressed about it all and started googling things like "can a pig fetch a ball?", "How smart are birds?" and "do snakes have emotions?"

    I had already googled pure breeds that didnt drop hair and I found in general these breeds were a little on the dainty side for me but I was beginning to break, I was starting to compromise, I imagined what a bichon would look like with a mow-hawk or how I might groom a schnauzer to look less like an old man. (Please dont be offended if you own one of these, I think all dogs are adorable and have a healthy respect for poodles but none seemed right for me). I went over and over the list not realising that in fact the list was incomplete, trying to find my compromise.

    The searching, the googling, the reading, the shelters... it was endless. I considered speaking to Alphas owner to find out where he got his mix from but I thought I didnt want to be too disapointed when he tells me that the dog drops hair everywhere and probably has some jaw problems. Worse still I didnt want to have to educate him on puppy mills and let him know he contributed to a shocking industry. I thought, let him just enjoy his dog and figured he just got lucky. So the search went on, for about two years!!

    One day I am sitting in the park and I feel a warm breath on my neck. I turn my head and I am face to face with Alpha. I stroke his chest. I had never touched him. His fur was like no other dogs I have ever felt before, the closest I can think is lamb. His owner who wasnt too far away came over apologising that he had just 'freed' him and hoped he wasnt disturbing me. "The opposite" I said "in fact I LOVE YOUR DOG and have been watching him for a while. Does he drop much hair?"
    The owner replied, no. I than said "Do you mind if I ask what kind of poodle mix he is?"

    The owner gave me the most curious expression, the same expression as when you say to someone 'your son is so cute!' and they reply with 'actually shes a girl' - well imagine that expression. It was a question he had been asked before clearly. I could see him hold back a rant and just reply with "actually hes not a poodle mix at all, he is a pure bred Lagotto"

    You know that feeling of when your on a roller coaster you go over a peak and your stomach drops or when you forget to set the alarm and you wake up one hour late for your wedding, well combine that feeling with finding the last piece of a giant jig saw puzzle under the couch. Cogs in my head turned, things fell into place, light bulbs came on and everything became quiet.

    I get my baby from a respectable breeder soon. Im really looking forward to sharing his pictures and stories with you all. I know he wont be like Alpha as even within pure breeds there is variance but Im looking forward to the journey with odds stacked on my side. Most of all and best of all, I didnt make a puppy mill mistake and our journey will be guilt free!

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Wow, I really, really enjoyed reading that post, helloworld! (Not just the story itself, which was great, but I thoroughly enjoyed your writing style, but that is obviously not the topic of this thread. )

    And I went to Google Lagotto and now I want one! And of course I cannot wait to see pics of your pup. And hear all about him/her.

    I also hope that you will take the time to respond to some of the posts we get here from people asking about where to get a particular oodle. We try to direct them away from puppy mills, and even though we often try very hard to be diplomatic, they usually get their hackles up at the mere suggestion that maybe they should look for an alternative to their preferred "breed". If them hearing your experience would prevent even one of them from buying a puppy mill pup, that would be absolutely fantastic.

    And welcome to the forum.

  7. #37
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    Aug 2009
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    Adelaide
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    ANKC registered businesses can have 40 breeders, pumping out 50 litters a year
    This is actually against ANKC rules. Bitches are not supposed to have litters more often than every 18 months, and are not supposed to be bred until they reach a minimum age. And I think there is a maximum age too.

    Given that ANKC registers all these dogs - they should be able to tell who is breaching the code of ethics fairly easily and expell them or refuse to register the litters.

    But I know there are plenty of dodgy ANKC breeders. At least they have a code of ethics, it would be nice if their breeders were expected to stick to them. State governments are starting to make some of the "ethics" into law. But who knows who will be responsible for enforcing that and whether any resources will be allocated to make it happen.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by helloworld View Post
    Hello world!
    This is my first post here and Im conscious of posting in such a 'controversial' thread to begin with but I wanted to give you my perspective from somebody who nearly bought a poodle mix from a puppy mill. Yes I said nearly - put the pitchforks away for a second! lol. I will expose my stupidity and ignorance, warts and all in exchange for the hope that someone will read this who might have been thinking in the same way as me. All I ask is that you read this in its entirety if you choose to reply.

    Im an animal lover of all kinds. My earliest recollection of 'trauma' was as a toddler when my mum accidentally killed a baby spider I had found and I cried for two days, literally. Im not particularly stupid or uneducated or irresponsible. I would be the last person you would think would even dream of buying from a puppy mill. So why did I nearly do it?

    I think this fascination with poodle mixes boils down to two misconceptions, one being that the dog will not drop hair and two that by mixing a poodle with another breed you will take the poodle out of the result, everything except the desirable non shedding coat. People want the non shedding part but they dont want the precious part, which is what the general misconception of a poodle is. That is why they simply dont get a poodle as most suggest. They perceive this breed to be pretentious, difficult and fragile. On top of that a poodle is somewhat slender looking when shaved adding to its fragile look. I used to say I want a dog that doesnt look like its going to break its legs chasing a ball.
    Some people might have a friend who has a poodle mix and they think this dog is great, they think that they can have the same pup with the same traits. Some people dont consider simple genetics and dont realise straight away that you cant pick and choose traits in a mix puppy and are mislead by the puppy farm websites that make you believe that they can.

    For me I always admired a dog in the park from afar. A medium sized poodle mix, the most majestic yet rugged dog you ever did see. Strong, driven and loyal, he is a beauty. I observed him chase down a ball jumping a small barrier into the ocean, when he emerged from the water I gasped at his strength and determination to bring that ball back. I was frankly in awe of him. I never spoke with the owner, most times they seemed so focused on each other that it would have been rude to interrupt. Whenever I went to the park I would look for this dog and in my head I had named him Alpha.

    I dont believe that people now days get a poodle mix for fashion. If people were only getting poodle mixes because they were trendy than the fad would have gone by now. The current cool dog is a french bull dog. I dont see poodle mix owners trading in for french bull dogs. It boils down to the misconception that poodle mixes do not shed. That is a major component of the decision making process, its doesnt shed and its not a poodle. The puppy mills found an untapped market and combined with a really quite impressive marketing they began to rake in the cash.

    When I started researching poodle mixes and reading forums, I quickly started to see the dark side of where allot of these pups come from BUT as I read, I often came across a post from a purest who would call the dogs mutts, mongrels and so forth. This would trigger my 'help the underdog' instinct. I would read these posts and often dismiss them as soon as the poster referred to the animal as being inferior to a pure breed. I detested this and challenged it in my mind. In my mind all animals are beautiful, I was often turned off by the hatred displayed by humans for the mix breed dog and those kinds of posts spurred me. In other words, I was confused by people attacking the dog and it made me defensive for the dog. It took me a long time to realise that mutt or mongrel did not necessarily mean bad, that it could just be a description but on initial read to the layman they come across like swear words and put downs. Sometimes when I was reminded of the horror of puppy mills it would fuel my desire to get a cross breed simply to save it from the torture described. Yes perpetuating the cycle. Its a big can of emotional worms, a journey where I started to find all sorts of justifications in my mind to find a dog just like Alpha even if it came from a puppy mill. It was a struggle to come to a place where I finally crossed off the puppy mill from my list because I wanted it so bad. I wanted to believe the dream they peddled through the encouraging words on their website, that they were working towards a better a breed, a standard and consistency. When I realised this dream is a rouge to make money I fell back to thinking I would be saving a puppy from these Frankensteiners. What a wonderful emotional money trap, serving no one except the breeder taking my money, yet in my mind, justifiable in order to save a life. It took some emotional maturity to figure that I was being selfish. It finally sunk in that I was not helping anyone except the mill so I turned to the next suggestion after people say 'get a poodle' comes... go to a shelter. I looked a little at shelters initially, I was brought up that dogs come from shelters, not breeders, mill or otherwise but the dropping hair part has always been the deal breaker. Admittedly i didn't look very hard the first time because there didnt seem to be very many poodle mixes so I turned to the breeder idea, once the breeder was knocked out of the equation I turned back to searching shelters.

    Heres why searching shelters doesnt help people looking for the 'ideal poodle mix' and why they dont find one. I was looking for a low shedding and robust looking dog. The shelters rarely had poodle mixes (compared to other mixes like staffy) and when they did they were definitely more of one of the breeds than the other, mostly 'other' over poodle. They all looked different. They dropped hair. None looked like Alpha. I became depressed, angry at myself for not just taking one of the dogs from the shelter and dealing with the allergies and hair and saving its life but I knew in my heart that it truly wasnt responsible if I wasnt 110% on board. I would leave upset allot.
    So I searched, and searched and searched.... It finally sunk in over time that the bigger picture looks like this:
    Anyone who gets a poodle mix has likely paid allot of money for it, they are generally good hearted well intentioned people and when they discover that the dog doesnt have all the traits they hoped they dont dump them, they still love them, they have bonded so they pour money into them when they get sick or invest in dog training when they appear a bit psycho because in general they started with good intentions. They tell their friends what a wonderful dog they have and bury the guilt deeply when they realise their mistake. Or if they struggled to pay for them in the first instance they struggle to find a way to keep them. The smaller percentage who dump them are the ones who shouldnt have ever had a dog regardless of breed or mix. So the dumped ones are the randoms containing a whole range of the anomalies you can get from breeding two different breeds in the early generations. Say one of these randoms is the 'ideal poodle mix', well he was adopted yesterday because its so very rare or he was never dumped at all, hes the one you see at the park with the happy owner and the example that you look to when you say 'that poodle mix is a great dog'. That is why you dont ever find the 'ideal poodle mix' at shelters. They are rare and when they exist they rarely get dumped.

    I became a bit depressed about it all and started googling things like "can a pig fetch a ball?", "How smart are birds?" and "do snakes have emotions?"

    I had already googled pure breeds that didnt drop hair and I found in general these breeds were a little on the dainty side for me but I was beginning to break, I was starting to compromise, I imagined what a bichon would look like with a mow-hawk or how I might groom a schnauzer to look less like an old man. (Please dont be offended if you own one of these, I think all dogs are adorable and have a healthy respect for poodles but none seemed right for me). I went over and over the list not realising that in fact the list was incomplete, trying to find my compromise.

    The searching, the googling, the reading, the shelters... it was endless. I considered speaking to Alphas owner to find out where he got his mix from but I thought I didnt want to be too disapointed when he tells me that the dog drops hair everywhere and probably has some jaw problems. Worse still I didnt want to have to educate him on puppy mills and let him know he contributed to a shocking industry. I thought, let him just enjoy his dog and figured he just got lucky. So the search went on, for about two years!!

    One day I am sitting in the park and I feel a warm breath on my neck. I turn my head and I am face to face with Alpha. I stroke his chest. I had never touched him. His fur was like no other dogs I have ever felt before, the closest I can think is lamb. His owner who wasnt too far away came over apologising that he had just 'freed' him and hoped he wasnt disturbing me. "The opposite" I said "in fact I LOVE YOUR DOG and have been watching him for a while. Does he drop much hair?"
    The owner replied, no. I than said "Do you mind if I ask what kind of poodle mix he is?"

    The owner gave me the most curious expression, the same expression as when you say to someone 'your son is so cute!' and they reply with 'actually shes a girl' - well imagine that expression. It was a question he had been asked before clearly. I could see him hold back a rant and just reply with "actually hes not a poodle mix at all, he is a pure bred Lagotto"

    You know that feeling of when your on a roller coaster you go over a peak and your stomach drops or when you forget to set the alarm and you wake up one hour late for your wedding, well combine that feeling with finding the last piece of a giant jig saw puzzle under the couch. Cogs in my head turned, things fell into place, light bulbs came on and everything became quiet.

    I get my baby from a respectable breeder soon. Im really looking forward to sharing his pictures and stories with you all. I know he wont be like Alpha as even within pure breeds there is variance but Im looking forward to the journey with odds stacked on my side. Most of all and best of all, I didnt make a puppy mill mistake and our journey will be guilt free!
    Great post! I also went and googled a Lagotto and they are cute Looking forward to some pictures as well Welcome to the forum.

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crested_Love View Post
    LOL Turns out hat $500 discount wasn't much of a discount at all.
    On top of the normal fee they also charge $60 for microchipping. $40 for worming, $40 for the booklet you have to buy, $100 GST plus other charges.

    Just found out this guy shot the other neighbors cat because it came in his yard and if his chickens get sick he just goes out and breaks their necks... Charming fellow.
    What an absolute tool!!!! i hope Karma comes and kicks his arse.

  10. #40

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    helloworld - Welcome !

    WoW - just loved, loved , loved your post ! Your sense of humour, honesty and style for a first post - was very impressive and extremely informative.

    I would love to see your post have it's own thread here - so that it can not be missed. Maybe speak to one of the moderators.

    Can't wait to see photos of your pup when it arrives - and - yes, you have picked a good and very cute breed of dog.

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