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Thread: Smack !!!

  1. #121
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    Melbourne
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    Absolutely ChoppaChop. And learnt very quickly indeed that yelling and loud voices absolutely did not work for me - they terrified rather than reprimanded.

    I don't ever want to create fear in my dog; after only a single episode when she was about 18 months old (managed to clamber onto the dining table and create havoc of all things!} the look on her face that the end of the world was about to land on her head is something I will never forget. Ears down, tail between legs, a lowered body stance when walking, the 'please forgive me' paw raise, the 'Boxer trembles', and then running away when called like she was expecting a beating... horrible stuff indeed. It took days to get her back to rights. Never again. Just a strong voice with plenty of projection from the diaphragm is more than enough for her.

    It's funny though, she was treated very well as a puppy before coming to us (we were encouraged to visit with her from 5 weeks until she was old enough to bring home so that she would be socialised with us), born first and her father's favourite {all other pups were boys, but the Dad, Baron, would take special care of her above all the others} - turns out she is just naturally submissive, and we had to figure that out the hard way.

  2. #122
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    Nov 2010
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    Brisbane
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    I yell at mine if they are being shits.

    Usually its a "HEY" in a really gruff ugly voice. They immediately stop whatever they are doing.

    But I have also been known to go off on a rant at them occasionally LOL. Usually they just stare at me like I am stupid.

    My dogs arent scared of us, not in the slightest, and they have had smacks and they get yelled at sometimes. IN all honesty though, its not very frequent. I am way more patient with the dogs that I am with ANYONE else.

  3. #123
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    Oct 2010
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    Southern NSW
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    I think you will also find that different breed have a different tolerance to yelling or even pain.........I am definitely not saying you should cause pain, but from watching our past work dogs. Our Blue heelers would go in with a bull/cow and even if they were hurt and stomped would keep working.....Momma cows could be roaring at them, as a new angus momma does, and they would not take any notice. Our Kelpies however would not go anywhere near them and even if a Ram started stomping would get out of the yard. I find ACD's are tough......even watching them work and where they work, they seem to just keep going...And our kelpies were soft, they would go for long hours and were better at distance, whooses when it came to challenges with stock. We were told ours came from a soft line LOL.......It also made them easier to direct in the Herding Trials. But I have also met some tough kelpies.....I know that even petting some dogs you can tell some dogs like to be stroked and others like my friend's Bull terrier almost likes to be thumped...he loves it when you are rough with him. My newfies and Tessa would hate it. So I think that would also come through in the training. Yell at some dogs and they are devastated.....yell at another and they think you are barking happily at them and they might even join in
    And even within the breed there are differnces.....My Katy is so soft, if you grumble she is upset. whilst lukey who was the timid Rescue is quite happy with a loud "OI" or "excuse me". We have to think of them as individuals always.......
    Last edited by newfsie; 05-27-2012 at 09:14 AM.
    Pets are forever

  4. #124
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    Jun 2011
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    Sydney
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    25 years ago when I first started dog training and obedience we all used check chains, verbal praise and a pat only for reward etc etc. This worked just fine for a large majority of dogs but it was without a doubt not for every dog and more so not for most people. They couldn't do it right.

    For my Kelpies it suited them just fine, particularly for the lower classes but to get up into work that was more difficult eg. retrieving the dumbell for a dog that was not a natural at retrieving was where we all stumbled using the old methods.

    However none of us ever hit our dogs as our hand signals were very important.

    In came positive reward training and a larger proportion of people got their dogs to a much higher level of training (myself included). Why I think because it suited a wider range of dogs & was much more forgiving it you got it wrong.

    Guide dogs, sniffer dogs, drug dogs etc etc, all are trained using positive reward training. Puppies and adults alike do not get their nosed rubbed in their toilet training mistakes.

    If you can make a smack appear to the dog to come out of nowhere & for it not to be badly associated with something that is going to have a negative impact then I'm not totally against the idea. It's much like using a check chain where that check comes out of nowhere & no words are spoken.

    As a person who owns sighthounds now, I can say that none were hardly ever seen in an obedience ring prior to the new methods of training. These days they are quite popular at agility & the new Rally O. The renowned nervous sighthound is also becoming less and less as more owners embrace new reward based training.

    I have a breed renowned for not liking cold or wet weather and I never have toilet training mistakes even in the worst weather nor do I have any marking within the house even though all dogs/bitches are entire. Even 25 years ago we didn't rub noses in toilet training errors & still don't with excellent results on even very young puppies.

    I'm glad I took on board the new methods of training, I certainly would of crushed my Whippets with the old training methods, nor would I have progressed so far with my Kelpies if I hadn't listended and tried out some of the new reward based methods. Sites like this give good information on updated methods people just need to give them a whirl.
    Last edited by MAC; 05-27-2012 at 01:26 PM.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Villain & Flirtt View Post
    The short, simple answer (I'm at work, lol) is that you cant make Sammy want the reward you have on offer. You must find and have available the reward he wants. Sometimes, you need to get really creative on rewards to identify just what your dog values more highly than that bunny. And sometimes, you go on the the field with quite a few varieties of reward- for different circumstances.

    Always, the dog dictates the reward/ payment!
    I agree the dog does choose what it finds rewarding, but sometimes the dog doesn't value anything higher than the bunny so we have to work to increase their value for other things and teach them that they can get drive satisfaction in other (better) ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuri_89 View Post
    Oh and Bec i have not had the privilege of watching your video just yet & when i do i'll be happy to admit to making a wrong assumption.

    Hopefully i can get a somebody to get a quick video next Monday at training so you can see for yourself that my girl isn't abused & that she is a content and intelligent girl.
    For the record, I haven't made a single assumption about your dogs, but you have made some about mine and others. I wouldn't have a clue what your dogs are like. I look forward to seeing your video

  6. #126
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    Aug 2009
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    Adelaide
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    I think I may have tried scolding Frosty along with a few other adversive punishments - but every time she'd just go upside down quivvering pile of mush and generally have brain engagement at all ie she didn't learn anything.

    My brother has tried it a few time and again massive fail. She's terrified, and she doesn't connect the dots eg no licking... Mostly if I yell, I'm just trying to get her attention, and that usually works. If I yell at something else - she joins in, like barking dogs do.

  7. #127
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
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    I use my "angry voice" or stomp my foot, ive never been lucky enough to catch her in the act of ripping something to shreds so i cant really yell at her after its happened. I just leave her outside for the night and like Sean i just ignore her which i think she hates more than a smack on the bum.

  8. #128

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    Deedees worse punishment she ever recieves is a stern voice. Usually though I only speak to her in a calm happy voice, as it's the only one she listens to.
    Sparky gets a stern voice, and occasionally he will get a quick, small smack on the nose. i stopped punishing like that for a long while, but have since discovered that he does best with mostly positive methods of training, but with a light smack or tap when he is doing something bad.. Also a small tap to the side and clapping hands get him out of it when he is staring a dog down and about to start a fight.

    Different methods for different dogs though, I would never smack deedee any more, she gets terrified of a raised voice. Where as sparky barely seems to feel the smack, it's like it's just a distracting touch (except the time I caught him tearing into a chook and made him yelp with my smacks. Maybe not the best, but well it wasn't anything compared to the pain and fear he gave to the chook)
    And thats not to say I smack him every time he does something bad. Most of the time I just use my voice, or time outs, or removal of whatever he is finding rewarding in the situation.

  9. #129
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    Nov 2010
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    Brisbane
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    Ive got no problems with smacks or taps on the bum....but personally, I think anything in the vicinity of the head/muzzle is a no no.

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