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Thread: Smack !!!

  1. #111
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    If you guys are gonna fight, atleast cover yourselves in oil or jelly and make a good show of it
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    I love 2 things in this world. Spandex and reyzor... not necessarily in that order.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuri_89 View Post
    A dog that has a condition such as yours i think is very different to a pup. I have never owned a puppy as an adult because i can't be bothered with one, i am not a maternal person therefore 'just because they are babies' doesn't matter to me. My dogs were older rescues and did not need toilet training they learnt pretty damn fast (without me having to rub their snout in it) The day i do get a puppy (OH wants one - and he will be dealing with it, not I) we won't be rubbing his face in it immediately, but once i think he should 'know better' (i don't know when that is, i just judge it) and he starts making mistakes, that is what i do as a way of punishment.

    Whether you like it or not pink, their is a group on this thread that tend to band together (the same people, everytime) and attack the average dog owner. Unfortunately we don't all have a background in dog training etc therefore we are not all up in the "new & improved" methods that you think we 'should' know. I raise my dogs via past experiences and if that doesn't work, i will go and seek help & information. As iv'e posted over and over again the day it doesn't work, will be the day i stop.
    Thank you!

  3. #113
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    I think what this discussion is about though is if a dog actually knows what is expected of them and deliberately disobeys the rules. The two camps are those who believe they do and then there are those who believe that if a dog wees inside it is because they simply do not know that they have to go outside EVERY TIME. That for whatever reason, they think it was ok to do so in the situation that they did it. If you believe that, there is little difference between punishing a dog for weeing inside in those situations and punishing them for doing it when the door was closed.

    I had Banjo wee inside a few times after I toilet trained her - she had been an outside dog at her foster place. I opted to believe that I had not enforced the "always go outside" rule enough and started again with taking her outside regularly and rewards and stuck to it a bit longer. Still only took me two weeks but it worked. I learnt that from the dog trainers here and I am glad I did. Not in the least because it made me feel better about the whole thing. I never got frustrated, never got angry and was absolutely sure I never confused the dog.

    I did use mostly punishment with my old dog and I regret it now I know there's an alternative. Even though my old dog was well behaved and very affectionate. I just think I could've handled her training differently and better because in hindsight I do think I confused her quite often and I see no shame in admitting that. It's not because something seems to work that it is automatically the best way to go about it.

  4. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloz View Post
    I think what this discussion is about though is if a dog actually knows what is expected of them and deliberately disobeys the rules. The two camps are those who believe they do and then there are those who believe that if a dog wees inside it is because they simply do not know that they have to go outside EVERY TIME. That for whatever reason, they think it was ok to do so in the situation that they did it. If you believe that, there is little difference between punishing a dog for weeing inside in those situations and punishing them for doing it when the door was closed.

    I had Banjo wee inside a few times after I toilet trained her - she had been an outside dog at her foster place. I opted to believe that I had not enforced the "always go outside" rule enough and started again with taking her outside regularly and rewards and stuck to it a bit longer. Still only took me two weeks but it worked. I learnt that from the dog trainers here and I am glad I did. Not in the least because it made me feel better about the whole thing. I never got frustrated, never got angry and was absolutely sure I never confused the dog.

    I did use mostly punishment with my old dog and I regret it now I know there's an alternative. Even though my old dog was well behaved and very affectionate. I just think I could've handled her training differently and better because in hindsight I do think I confused her quite often and I see no shame in admitting that. It's not because something seems to work that it is automatically the best way to go about it.
    No I agree with you, my dog did not know he needed to go outside every time to wee. He was very proud with himself for peeing outside and came for me for a reward and always came over to me for his reward. But left unsupervised, at over 5 months old, he really couldn't be bothered going all the way outside (not to mention he hates getting his paws wet) and he was slowly but surely submerging our house. So I told him off. Did it literally 3 times. Never hurt him or scared him, just told him I disagreed with the behaviour, grabbed him and dragged him outside quickly (because by 5 months he was already like 25kg or something). And voila, he was toilet trained and we've had no accidents since.

    Now as an example of a smack. This morning we were in the car stopped at traffic lights. A cat was rolling around on the footpath, Sammy started up with the whinging and fixation. I told him to sit down, he ignored me. I smacked his butt and he sat down - not another word from me because he knew he'd been asked to sit down and so he knew what to do when he felt the smack - he knew what the smack was for and he had heard the command the first time so it didn't need to be repeated. After he sat down he didn't look sad or anything, he just knew he had needed a reminder to do the right thing and he was now doing the right thing so all was good. He has never looked surprised after being smacked, and I might add, I hit this dog harder when I'm patting him than when I smack him so it's not like he's worried I'll hurt him.

  5. #115
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    We all use the methods we do as we know whether our dogs are sensitive or hardasses.

    My 4 are hardasses. They will get a swat and DOWN if they jump at me when they come inside.
    OI usually changes their behaviour as well as EXCUSE ME!
    They also know they are not allowed to try and smuggle bones into the house.
    Jessie makes sure it is a small bone so her entire gob can be closed around it.
    If she is keeping her gob closed and wagging her tail to get in my suspicions are aroused.

    The others try with a bigger bone and my saying that they know better than that, pointing a finger at them and they slink out the door with a miffed look.

    I will however use the stable table (a tray with a beanbag type filling underneath so it is easily stable whilst eating on it on my lap) to swat at my 2 that seem to like having a spat underneath my raised legs when I have them on the coffee table. (the stable table is right near me all the time)

    Their spats can be pretty ferocious looking but no blood. There would be blood....mine...if I was bitten as my legs would be in the road. The swat makes them go a few feet away from me to continue if they wish to. I leave them to it as they don't last long and for some reason only happen at night. They are great mates at other times, lol.

    I just tend to do what works best at the time and mostly it is the OI or EXCUSE ME?

    None of mine are afraid of me.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  6. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lala View Post
    Hey Chop, seeing as you liked that...wanna show me a video of your super well behaved balanced dogs in exchange for mine just doing pretty much whatever they want LMAO
    I would love to Lala but sadly I don't have any of my super well behaved balanced dogs .... I have some like yours but! Will they do !
    GageDesign Pet Photography
    Site still in construction so will post link when it's finished.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by 99bottles View Post
    No I agree with you, my dog did not know he needed to go outside every time to wee. He was very proud with himself for peeing outside and came for me for a reward and always came over to me for his reward. But left unsupervised, at over 5 months old, he really couldn't be bothered going all the way outside (not to mention he hates getting his paws wet) and he was slowly but surely submerging our house. So I told him off. Did it literally 3 times. Never hurt him or scared him, just told him I disagreed with the behaviour, grabbed him and dragged him outside quickly (because by 5 months he was already like 25kg or something). And voila, he was toilet trained and we've had no accidents since.
    That's a contradiction. "He didn't know" and "he couldn't be bothered". Maybe to the dog it seemed logical that he should go outside if the grass is nice and dry and otherwise the carpet is fine too. And you could've probably achieved the same result by taking him outside yourself for wees on wet grass and praising him.

    It's not because it seemed to work that it was the best method.

    But I do agree that for dogs who aren't overly sensitive, the odd light smack or yelling at isn't going to damage them, even if you don't get the timing exactly right - which is the biggest risk with that method. But I can see why dog trainers - who have to deal with all sorts of temperaments - would prefer to use a method that works for most dogs, including the sensitive ones and one that doesn't depend on having impeccable timing because most dog owners don't all the time.

  8. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloz View Post
    That's a contradiction. "He didn't know" and "he couldn't be bothered". Maybe to the dog it seemed logical that he should go outside if the grass is nice and dry and otherwise the carpet is fine too. And you could've probably achieved the same result by taking him outside yourself for wees on wet grass and praising him.

    It's not because it seemed to work that it was the best method.

    But I do agree that for dogs who aren't overly sensitive, the odd light smack or yelling at isn't going to damage them, even if you don't get the timing exactly right - which is the biggest risk with that method. But I can see why dog trainers - who have to deal with all sorts of temperaments - would prefer to use a method that works for most dogs, including the sensitive ones and one that doesn't depend on having impeccable timing because most dog owners don't all the time.
    Every time I took my dog outside on wet grass he went and it was fine. But say I was distracted and not paying attention (and lord knows it's impossible to watch your dog non-stop from 2-6 months) he would just go inside. I would just clean it up, say nothing, take him out later to pee and praise again. It just kept going on like that until I started following him whenever he left the room and told him off for peeing inside. He always got that going outside made me happier, he just also needed to know that going inside made me angry. I think the other two times I told him off for puddles (ie didn't catch him in the act) and he still got it, he had an idea by then that I didn't like him going inside. But he's a smart dog, you could see he got it and sure enough, he never did it again (touch wood!)

  9. #119

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    I'm just a little curious ....

    Do those that use no...erm lets say not in the positive reward handbooks methods....ever raise your voice or tell your dog off ? And I mean , really tell your dog off.


    edit to add - by the way I have and still do use the rolled up newspaper trick, only I have to tape mine up as if found ( even then at times) it becomes an instant chew toy. But I have found that I only need to whack the floor or lounge or wherever really hard and the noise does the work for me. I only need to lift it for the resident dogs to know they've pushed too far.
    Last edited by ChoppaChop; 05-26-2012 at 02:59 PM.
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    Site still in construction so will post link when it's finished.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChoppaChop View Post
    I'm just a little curious ....

    Do those that use no...erm lets say not in the positive reward handbooks methods....ever raise your voice or tell your dog off ? And I mean , really tell your dog off.


    edit to add - by the way I have and still do use the rolled up newspaper trick, only I have to tape mine up as if found ( even then at times) it becomes an instant chew toy. But I have found that I only need to whack the floor or lounge or wherever really hard and the noise does the work for me. I only need to lift it for the resident dogs to know they've pushed too far.
    Oh yes.
    One memorable occasion was with Pretty and Bandit when they were jockeying for position and now it is sorted so they never spat any more or fight.

    They had a full on dog fight.
    I threw one shoe at them, held the other one up and yelled at them that I would bloody use it, and what I thought of them fighting near the bird cage which they had nearly tipped over. Also went to the door telling them to bloody get outside and sort it.
    Both declined and went back to sleep in the loungeroom. lol

    Tell you what, you REALLY know the difference between a spat and a fight once you have seen one.
    Last edited by Di_dee1; 05-26-2012 at 03:08 PM.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

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