Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: Hybrid - that peeves me off

  1. #1

    Default Hybrid - that peeves me off

    I wish the cross breeders would stop calling their crosses breed1 breed2 hybrids. To the general public that implies they are stronger and more sturdy due to hybrid vigor. But domestic dogs, dingos and wolves are the same species so not hybrids. If they were hybrids the offspring would be infertile - just like mules. Not sure what others opinions are or what you will post, I am just getting a pet peeve off my chest.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    203

    Default

    Hybrids are not always necessarily infertile as far as I am aware
    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." - Edward Hoagland

  3. #3

    Default

    Kaz is right, tho it's rarish, I believe. IThere are names for the offspring of tiger/lion X's that breed another generation. Fenriz? may know. He works in a zoo. jammy mongrel.

  4. #4

    Default

    In birds hybrids are usually fertile, same with fish..

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Sunshine coast Qld
    Posts
    1,121

    Default

    I am no expert on the subject but I think pepe it is just a generic term used "Hybrid vigour" or genetists call it Heterosis and is the term used to describe the burst of fertility, good health and growth that is seen in the progeny when two unrelated breeds are mated. The longer that these breeds have been separated, and the greater the differences between them, the stronger will be the resulting hybrid vigour.
    I think it is well known amongst genetists that a well bred and carefully planned mating of x breeds is more likely to produce healtier off spring than purebreds, but thats not to say a well bred and carefully planned mating of 2 purebreds will not produce the same.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    203

    Default

    "hybrid vigour" is actually a generally used term that relates to the higher rate of different genes within an individual due to a cross breeding of two species. I.e. if there is a bad gene in on species crossing it with another can help to get rid of it
    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." - Edward Hoagland

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    4,292

    Default

    The term comes from cattle farming. Different species or different breeds, I don't understand why the term itself would annoy anyone?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Southern NSW
    Posts
    3,784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pepe001 View Post
    I wish the cross breeders would stop calling their crosses breed1 breed2 hybrids. To the general public that implies they are stronger and more sturdy due to hybrid vigor. But domestic dogs, dingos and wolves are the same species so not hybrids. If they were hybrids the offspring would be infertile - just like mules. Not sure what others opinions are or what you will post, I am just getting a pet peeve off my chest.
    Cattle have hybrid's within the species and they are fertile......But it is just a fancy term for crosses in general english language and not correct....in cattle we do cross breed for "hybrid vigour" (larger growth rate in less years, not necessarily better health), but it only happens in the first cross....we never breed two crosses together only ever two pure breds..Say Angus bull to Hereford cows.

    It however does not happen with the more recent diluted breeds. Such as a Murray grey...when you breed them to a pure Angus, you do not get the "hybrid vigour".

    A lot of people who breed do not know anything about genetics.....if you breed two very old breeds, you may get hybrid vigour, take note how first cross poodle x labrador are often tall dogs. But if you follow through as you would in cattle it does not mean improved health. You still have the same risks that you get from any parentage...health checks need to be done and genetic studies.

    Mules are different, because it is breeding a horse and a donkey.......It is the same as when you breed a water buffalo and cow........infertile.....And again they also often are larger

    "The domestic dog (Canis lupus familiaris) is a domesticated form of the gray wolf (Canis lupus lupus) and therefore belongs to the same species as other wolves, such as the dingo (Canis lupus dingo). Therefore, crosses between these sub-species are unremarkable and not a hybridization in the same sense as an interbreeding between different species of Canidae.
    People wanting to improve domestic dogs or create an exotic pet may breed domestic dogs to wolves. Gray wolves have been crossed with dogs that have a wolf-like appearance, such as Siberian huskies, and Alaskan malamutes. The breeding of wolf–dog crosses is controversial, with opponents purporting that it produces an animal unfit as a domestic pet. A number of wolfdog breeds are in development. The first generation crosses (one wolf parent, one dog parent) generally are backcrossed to domestic dogs to maintain a domestic temperament and consistent conformation. First-generation wolf–dog crosses are popular in the United States, but they retain many wolf-like traits."

    You are correct if you define the term exact, but I know the term is used in cattle breeding all the time
    Pets are forever

  9. #9

    Default

    Cattle are breed crosses, and the hybrid vigour applies to our breeding programmes, with domestic animals.The remark about the fertility was my mistake. I was affirming that some cross species are sometimes fertile. I believe, very rarely, mules or hinnies, which, I can't remember, have occasionally produced young, from a donkey or horse. I can't remember which. I don't think I've ever heard of hybrid vigour in species, it is used for breeds within domestic species. Let's use the same terminology. Species are sheep, ferrets, lions, etc and breeds are dorper, poll dorset, merino, etc and their species, common name, is sheep.

    The hybrid vigour is often due to the outcross making it far less likely that debilitating recessive genes get their needed match, so the vigour would seem proved, insofar as recessive genes that limit digestion, or lung function, etc, stay recessive, and the animal appears bigger and healthier. Plus our infernal fashions or greed, making breeds less sound, in companion or meat species. Whilst we breed inwardly, to concentrate the traits we like, we also concentrate faulty genes. It is a really hard thing to do well, and to do it, you have to accept that you will get some nasty surprises, as well. Sometimes the genes are so concentrated, the faulty genes effect digestion, height, body mass, fertility, and can result in the species/breed extinction.

    H1 is quite useful. It says it's the 1st cross, so less likely to breed true to it's particular phenotype and as we heirloom vegie growers know, those commercially produced seeds are infertile or won't breed true to type.
    Last edited by Menageriemanor; 05-21-2012 at 09:06 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    12,583

    Default

    Hybrids have been used in reference to plants forever.

    And now they talk about hybrid cars.

    My old pocket oxford talks about cross breed and mongrel - so hybrid is probably accurate.

    Talking about dog cross breeds as having "hybrid vigour" is about as valid as assuming hybrid roses will grow better than other roses - sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't.

    There's no guarantee with a cross breed - made without gene splicing that you will get the best combination of genes and not the worst combination. That's why selection is so important. If you happen to get the worst combinaton - then you prevent further breeding of that line, and try a different combination.

    That's the trouble with marketing - they make promises that you want to hear but the product does not always live up to your expections resulting from promises made.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •