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Thread: Muffy the Mad

  1. #81

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    Any nip from any dog is as bad as the next.
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChoppaChop View Post
    I rooley trooley wasn't going to comment on this thread as I found it rather alarming to be totally honest.

    Seriously,a larger dog would already have its wings. Any dog that had bitten that many people that many times would of received its wings with me.
    I don't believe dogs such as this have a place in Rescue/rehoming.
    Sorry to be blunt but it's my honest opinion.
    When I first read the behaviours of this dog, I also wondered why he wasnt put to sleep with the first bite, as that seems to be the common response.

    But having said that, I think paws is fantastic and truely big hearted to work with this little fellow. I think if someone is willing to put in the hard yards...they all deserve a chance.
    Well done paws and fingers crossed he turns out to be a well adjusted member of someones family.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  3. #83

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    Don't get me wrong Cav , kudos to Bel for working with this dog.

    But even 'entertaining' the idea that this dog can someday be rehomed is wrong.
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  4. #84
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    Andrew here - changed my username to avoid future confusion.

    Sure is a can of worms isn't it. Not that I don't think the situation should be treated "realistically" and great caution exercised because we need to be aware that behaviours can resurface - but the notion that this particular dog is a stay with us or wings case based on a written account provided by novice dog owners is tantamount to suggesting that people should be allowed to deliberately provoke and taunt a dog until it bites them, then declare it dangerous and have it "winged".

    I understand choppachops concern, but I can't agree. In the case of a dog (big or small) that bites people unprovoked I can understand how people have this attitude. But Muffy is not that dog, her behaviour just does not match that at all. While I can never be sure without being there, I can't help but feel the use of that word "unprovoked" makes the statement provided to us in the original description absolute bollocks.

    To the best of our knowledge to date, Muffy makes full use of a whole series of warning body language/actions before escalating (and she doesn't seem to escalate excusing the first night, and frankly, I provoked her knowing that its a learned behavior of hers). This goes back to my statement that all dog owners should have a basic understanding of canine behavior, because all dogs are capable of being pushed to a breaking point where they lash out, just the same as most living creatures are. Now if that happened, and muffy bit someone, I mean the first time it happened. Someone should've been consulted and the behaviour handled then. The fact that people failed to do this is precisely what makes it not ok to suggest she should be removed from the world simply for becoming stressed and defending herself.

    And really - Muffy may yet not be rehomed - we just don't know, it is far too early to make such a call and really the suggestion that Bel (a qualified behaviourist/trainer) would take the decision lightly is pretty ridiculous.

    EDIT: - not that I mean to suggest anyone is "suggesting bel would take it lightly"
    Last edited by pianoman; 05-21-2012 at 11:11 AM. Reason: just an extra note..

  5. #85

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    Andrew ( Hi by the way )

    I'm totally understanding your views, truley I am. And I was not inferring that Bel was taking it 'lightly'

    However.....the fact are facts. Learned behaviour or not. The reasons become quite moot after teeth are placed on human skin with intent.
    A fear aggressive dog , in my honest opinion is the most dangerous of all. Any number of small triggers otherwise unseen or unknown of by an unexperienced eye can lead to serious harm.

    Dogs such as this have no place in Rescue or Rehoming.
    That's the bottom line.

    eta ; bugga! you edited after I posted re the 'lightly' comment
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavalierqld View Post
    When I first read the behaviours of this dog, I also wondered why he wasnt put to sleep with the first bite, as that seems to be the common response.
    She comes from an animal shelter - where she was no doubt assessed as acceptable for adoption by a behaviourist who had not history on her. The foster organisation took her from there, and they have a "no kill" policy. If she ultimately can't be rehomed permanently she will be placed with a permanent foster that is willing to make the effort to manage her (not a lot of effort it looks like..?) - It won't be us because the organisition will most likely want Bel available for any other queries. They have access to fosters that will be willing to handle her.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloz View Post
    I'm going to say this even though I know that many here won't agree. First of all, a little dog that might bite just IS less of a risk than a big dog. Not to say that it's ok, but I wouldn't call a little fluff ball like that dangerous. She'd be lucky to be able to pierce someone's skin with those tiny teeth.

    And secondly, there's biting and biting. It's never good and I do understand that fear biting makes a dog unpredictable, but biting isn't mauling.

    And lastly, it sounds like the reports on this dog's behaviour have been exaggerated and I think it is fair for PF to make their own assessment regardless of the dog's past.
    Well said beloz, the bite of a maltese while certainly not good in any sense is not going to rip the throat of the lady next doors white and fluffy, nor is it going to require plastic surgery if he bites you.
    I could name 20 dogs small dogs with the same behaviours muffy is dislaying just from people i have known, they are everywhere...they are more a nusience, yappy, snappy .....than a threat to anyone!
    I rottweiler with the same issues is a threat....they have the potential to KILL someone.
    Small dogs with behaviour issues are easily managed with a responsible owner that understands the challanges, works on the issues and ensures the behaviours dont affect anyone else.
    If we were to PTS every small and fluffy, that snapped out of fear, there would be very few left.

    I actually am not a fan of small and fluffies, but dont think they should all be put to sleep...they are easily managed and do not have the capasity to kill someone.
    I think the rage over this little dog is unjustified.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by cavalierqld View Post
    Well said beloz, the bite of a maltese while certainly not good in any sense is not going to rip the throat of the lady next doors white and fluffy, nor is it going to require plastic surgery if he bites you.
    I could name 20 dogs small dogs with the same behaviours muffy is dislaying just from people i have known, they are everywhere...they are more a nusience, yappy, snappy .....than a threat to anyone!
    I rottweiler with the same issues is a threat....they have the potential to KILL someone.
    Small dogs with behaviour issues are easily managed with a responsible owner that understands the challanges, works on the issues and ensures the behaviours dont affect anyone else.
    If we were to PTS every small and fluffy, that snapped out of fear, there would be very few left.

    I actually am not a fan of small and fluffies, but dont think they should all be put to sleep...they are easily managed and do not have the capasity to kill someone.
    I think the rage over this little dog is unjustified.

    By comparing a 'little' dog bite to a 'big' dog bite and saying it is ok for the little dog to bite and the big dog not to....not only are you playing into the effective hands of a government enforced fear based anti large dog legislation ( said with all due respect Cav ) you are in affect 'enabling' the aggressiveness of 'little' dogs to progress and be 'accepted' .

    NO bite from ANY dog should be 'enabled' .

    ( I'm not enraged by either it by the way....very worried however...)
    GageDesign Pet Photography
    Site still in construction so will post link when it's finished.

  9. #89
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    I understand what your saying chops and your right, i think thats the reason many dont like the "small and fluffies", (in Seans thread that is very clear) for that very reason, snappy and yappy.

    And i dont condone ANY dogs that bite, what im saying is the threat of 5 kg dog with fear biting issues, is not the same as the threat from a rottweiler with the same issues.
    A maltese who is agressive is not going to jump the back fence and kill a neighbours child or dog, so big dog or small dog with issues, to me its about the threat that dog would pose to its community.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  10. #90

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    I understand you too Cav - tis great when the world turns apon it's axis correctly

    However , I wills till have to disagree about 'little' verse 'big' dog safety in the community
    GageDesign Pet Photography
    Site still in construction so will post link when it's finished.

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