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Thread: Help choosing dog

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavalierqld View Post
    Wow "name is invalid", ACA kennels, now that is a blast from the past! I am around 50 and i remember going to those Sunday markets in Croyden every week and while my parents went around the markets, I would sit and try to pat the puppies there through the cages..sometimes for hours.
    I remember how bad it smelled and felt really sorry for them.

    I am sure things have changed (well I hope they have) since then, but growing up I remember most pups died from parvo from there and my mum used to get really ANGRY with me being in there as she was always worried i would bring the disease home to our cavaliers.
    Back then they used to get pups from everyone and anyone, usually unwanted litters from the dog that jumped the fence (probably still is) . as i remember they didnt pay for pups, just took unwanted ones from whoever, they used to have an ad every week in the paper saying they would collect unwanted puppies.
    I wonder how much has changed.....

    I have friend in Lillydale who has 3 labs and breeds them (yellow). What colour were you looking at?

    Let me know and I will ring her for you, if she dosent have pups at the moment, she can give me references for you as to others who are good breeders who will have pups.
    Lol dodgy dodgy dodgy just looking at the list of puppies they carry shows me where they come from Its sad though that people will read their "about me" and "where puppies come from" section and think they are fantastic.

    This name is invalid... have a look at this link http://www.dogforum.com.au/puppy-dis...ers-truth.html if you plan to buy from a pet store, you puppy could come from somewhere similar to this.

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

  2. #62
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    this name is invalid

    If you want to go get a puppy next week - chances are you're going to get a puppy mill special because those are the only places that always have puppies available.

    If you want a pet from a responsible breeder who only breeds to improve the breed and to meet demand - ie only when all the puppies have potential homes (before the mating) you will have to wait. Unless you're willing to take an older puppy that some other buyer couldn't keep for what ever reason (eg had a car accident and is now newly wheelchair bound, healing and can't manage a puppy).

    Responsible breeders will not breed their bitches more than once every 18 months - ie not every season, and then it can take up to 6 months for a bitch to come in season and get pregnant, another 3 months being pregnant and then you can't take the puppy home until it's 8 weeks old...

    But if you want a puppy next week, be prepared for an unhealthy puppy with hip displasia that will cost you squillions at the vet. Not to mention one that may be of grumpy parents, and maybe taken away from the mother too young (so the mother can be bred again sooner), so it doesn't know how to get along with other dogs either.

    It's not like buying a new TV.

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cavalierqld View Post
    Wow "name is invalid", ACA kennels, now that is a blast from the past! I am around 50 and i remember going to those Sunday markets in Croyden every week and while my parents went around the markets, I would sit and try to pat the puppies there through the cages..sometimes for hours.
    I remember how bad it smelled and felt really sorry for them.

    I am sure things have changed (well I hope they have) since then, but growing up I remember most pups died from parvo from there and my mum used to get really ANGRY with me being in there as she was always worried i would bring the disease home to our cavaliers.
    Back then they used to get pups from everyone and anyone, usually unwanted litters from the dog that jumped the fence (probably still is) . as i remember they didnt pay for pups, just took unwanted ones from whoever, they used to have an ad every week in the paper saying they would collect unwanted puppies.
    I wonder how much has changed.....

    I have friend in Lillydale who has 3 labs and breeds them (yellow). What colour were you looking at?

    Let me know and I will ring her for you, if she dosent have pups at the moment, she can give me references for you as to others who are good breeders who will have pups.
    Thanks for sharing your experience. It seems as though they've improved a lot; everything was very clean and the dogs looked well kept. I still don't know where they source their dogs from which is a worry and there's not much info on the parents.

    We actually went there today, and everyone except for me fell in love with the two cavadors that they had. I also got to handle a lab, but it was a bit spaz (); not sure if this had something to do with how it has been treated or just the dog's character.
    But the good news is that I didn't sneeze once!

    That's lucky! I was looking for a yellow one!
    It would be great if you could ring, but don't feel pressured at all if you don't. I've contacted a couple of lab breeders, so I already have some options.

    Thanks again.

    Quote Originally Posted by jadielee87 View Post
    Lol dodgy dodgy dodgy just looking at the list of puppies they carry shows me where they come from Its sad though that people will read their "about me" and "where puppies come from" section and think they are fantastic.

    This name is invalid... have a look at this link http://www.dogforum.com.au/puppy-dis...ers-truth.html if you plan to buy from a pet store, you puppy could come from somewhere similar to this.
    Yeah, I'd already seen that link. It's definitely worrying.

    Do you really think that ACA's breeders are puppy farms?
    Although it is definitely possible, I don't think that you should make such assumptions, especially as the only information you have is from the website.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    this name is invalid

    If you want to go get a puppy next week - chances are you're going to get a puppy mill special because those are the only places that always have puppies available.

    If you want a pet from a responsible breeder who only breeds to improve the breed and to meet demand - ie only when all the puppies have potential homes (before the mating) you will have to wait. Unless you're willing to take an older puppy that some other buyer couldn't keep for what ever reason (eg had a car accident and is now newly wheelchair bound, healing and can't manage a puppy).

    Responsible breeders will not breed their bitches more than once every 18 months - ie not every season, and then it can take up to 6 months for a bitch to come in season and get pregnant, another 3 months being pregnant and then you can't take the puppy home until it's 8 weeks old...

    But if you want a puppy next week, be prepared for an unhealthy puppy with hip displasia that will cost you squillions at the vet. Not to mention one that may be of grumpy parents, and maybe taken away from the mother too young (so the mother can be bred again sooner), so it doesn't know how to get along with other dogs either.

    It's not like buying a new TV.
    I don't mean to come off as rude, but there are 14 breeders in Victoria on 'Dogzonline' (here) with Labrador puppies for sale at the moment, so, unless they're all puppy farms, I think that it's wrong to say that it's impossible to get one from a reputable breeder next week (although I'm not particularly in a hurry).

    The two breeders whom I contacted must be puppy farms too, ey?
    I linked them on the last page if you're worried and would like to check them out.

    Thanks for the help you've given me and I will remember how you warned me about puppy farms when deciding where to buy.
    Last edited by This name is invalid; 05-10-2012 at 07:07 PM.

  4. #64
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    Yes they probably are puppy mills, dont be fooled into thinking all registered kennels are responsible breeders. If dogs are outside in kennels and they have puppies available all year round....they are in it for no other reason than the the "cash", despite what they tell you.

    I think invalid name, the only reason people get upset here about places like that, is because the pups and more importantly the ""breeding stock"" (god i hate that term), generally have a lessor quality of life, matings are not generally carried out with the health of the future puppies in mind.. but just what is more convienient and cost effective to keep the litters and the cash flowing, thus breeding pups will be more likely to be affected by genetic disorders.

    When the "breeding stock" is past its use by date for breeding, they "rehome" to make way for more breeders.


    There are more puppies up for sale on dogz online than ive had hot dinners, obviousley business is booming. I always thought responsible registered breeders didnt breed more dogs than they needed for themselves or have buyers for prior to mating?
    So I certainly wouldnt go there.

    They are just my thoughts, and everyone is different but please think about the quality of life for the parents of the pup you buy, look for a small breeder, who has the best interest of the dogs at heart, who are a part of there family......not a number in a mass breeding program/puppy farm, and you will know for sure you will not supporting lessor quality of life nor cruelty.

    My friend in Melb has no pups till maybe next year, but she will ring around and let me know me saturday if she finds a good breeder who has a litter.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  5. #65
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    I'm sure in the end - you will get the puppy you deserve.

    You cannot tell if a breeder is responsible from the material they supply alone. Pretty websites are not an indication of a responsible breeder. It does feel rude when we try our best to help you, and you flip flop around changing your mind compleetely about what you want and ignore everything we say about how to choose a good breeder. I'm feeling like I've been strung along and sorry I tried.

    Nope not all breeders registered with ANKC are reputable or breed with the best interests of their breed future in mind. And not every breeder on that other forum is reputable or reliable or responsible either. I've read plenty of sad tales from puppy buyers who bought from a fancy website, and got an unhealthy puppy at an outrageous price. You need to check with sources other than the breeder's own website.

    Some breeders advertise having puppies available when they don't actually - they're just looking for interest in their next planned litter. I guess that's a bit rude. Sometimes they're just a bit slack with the updates.

    Some do have puppies available but that can mean they've failed the code of ethics
    A member shall breed primarily for the purpose of improving the quality and / or working
    ability of the breed in accordance with the breed standard, and not specifically for the pet or
    commercial market
    It's an interesting read, the code of ethics and it is possible to be registered with ANKC and not stick to it.
    Australian National Kennel Council

    Clues about puppy farms -
    you don't get to meet the parents. It's really bad if you don't get to meet the mother.
    sometimes they register the puppies with ANKC - with the cross breeds - they can't. With the ANKC registered breeders, they're supposed to register all the puppies and microchip them - microchipping is vic law now anyway.
    ACA definitely meets all the criteria of being an outlet for one or more puppy farms. A responsible breeder will take their dog back - no matter how old it is because they care about all the puppies they breed. They won't necessarily refund your money, but they don't want the dog to end up at the pound.

    ANKC registered breeders are not supposed to sell through pet stores.

    So ACA breeders have no code of ethics and they don't tick many boxes (if any) on the RSPCA list of what responsible breeders do. They're all about cute puppies. They're not going to pay your ongoing vet bills when the puppy has teeth or joint problems - and these won't show up in 14 days. There's no mention of any genetic testing of the parent dogs to make sure they're not breeding together problems or any mention of follow up on puppies sold to see if they remain healthy.

    You don't get to see what conditions the puppy parents live in. And puppy mills lie. You don't get to go visit these places because you'd find them upsetting.

    What is a responsible companion animal breeder? - RSPCA Australia knowledgebase

    And ACA should not be able to sell you an ANKC registered puppy. They probably can't tell you what the hip scores of the parents are either. Saving some money this way may be false economy.

    For the dogsonline list. Some of them look good. Some of them not so much. I don't know if you noticed but most of them are advertising for interest - not available puppies. One has a puppy available cos someone piked on her, though I'm surprised she doesn't have a waiting list. I like the ones that say you can meet the parent dogs and view the hip score documentation... but again, you're best to meet them face to face and get independent verification of what the breeder says.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by This name is invalid View Post
    Yeah, I'd already seen that link. It's definitely worrying.

    Do you really think that ACA's breeders are puppy farms?
    Although it is definitely possible, I don't think that you should make such assumptions, especially as the only information you have is from the website.
    My guess is yes, responsible breeders would not sell their puppies through a pet store. They would want to meet the potential owners of their puppy and make sure they suit the personality of the puppy they are going to be selling and that they are fit to own a dog and will be able to care for it both physically and mentally. Will the pet store allow you to bring the puppy back if something was to happen which meant you could no longer care for the pup? A breeder would.

    Of course, you can buy a puppy from where ever you want at the end of the day. Just think of where it has come from and what its parents go through to make that puppy. Also remember the behavioural and health issues that can arise from purchasing a puppy from a pet store that Hyacinth mentioned before.

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

  7. Default

    Thanks for all of the info, everyone! You've been extremely helpful and now I know everything I need to know to pick the right breeder.

    Quote Originally Posted by cavalierqld View Post
    My friend in Melb has no pups till maybe next year, but she will ring around and let me know me saturday if she finds a good breeder who has a litter.
    Awesome! Thank you so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    It does feel rude when we try our best to help you, and you flip flop around changing your mind compleetely about what you want and ignore everything we say about how to choose a good breeder. I'm feeling like I've been strung along and sorry I tried.
    Well, I am only 1/5 of the decision, so it's not my fault that I "flip flop around". If it were up to me, I would go by all of the advice that you've given, but, at the end of the day, it's not my choice. However, I don't understand what you mean when you say that I "ignore everything" you say; I've taken all of your advice so far.

    Thanks again!

  8. #68
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    Have you gone to any shows, met any dogs or breeders? Yes?

    No.

    You've been to a major puppy mill outlet.

    Maybe you need to show your kids some pictures of what puppy mills do to the breeding dogs and puppies before they're all cleaned up and left in the pet shop to look cute.
    Puppy Farms | RSPCA Australia | For all creatures, great & small.

    warning - the following link is only for those with strong stomachs or think ACA is a good place to get a puppy.
    http://www.oscarslaw.org/

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    Have you gone to any shows, met any dogs or breeders? Yes?

    No.

    You've been to a major puppy mill outlet.

    Maybe you need to show your kids some pictures of what puppy mills do to the breeding dogs and puppies before they're all cleaned up and left in the pet shop to look cute.
    Puppy Farms | RSPCA Australia | For all creatures, great & small.

    warning - the following link is only for those with strong stomachs or think ACA is a good place to get a puppy.
    Oscar's law
    Give me some time, I don't have much to spare on weekdays. I've contacted breeders...not really sure where to find shows, and whether it's as important as it was, since my dog allergies seem to have disappeared with age (it would still be a good idea to go, of course!).
    Also, you've no proof that ACA is a puppy mill outlet (although I'm not defending it).

    I'm well aware of puppy farms by now, that's what the last couple of pages have addressed. But I must thank you for alerting me to the use of puppy farms in pet shops (I wouldn't have really thought so otherwise).

  10. #70
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    Well name is invalid, i took on the liberty of checking out the link you posted in regards to ACA Breeders Kennels.

    I read the sugar coated 'OUR BREEDERS' section and froze when i saw the word Gippsland. I'm from NZ & have only ever had the pleasure of living in QLD & visiting Sydney... Yet i know this name... Oh wait yes, it was imprinted in my head because of this video. Hope you take the pleasure in watching - it'll make your stomach churn

    Gippsland Puppy Factory - YouTube

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