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Thread: Pack animal?

  1. #11
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    The filter can also be lifted if an admin wants to.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  2. #12
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    I call my crew the herd - beause there is a friesan, a black angus, and a murray grey/blue.
    bomber2.JPGmy herd.JPG

  3. #13
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    I call my guys my kids.

    African wild dogs hunt in a pack....or probably more accurately, a family group. I tend to think of them as more family animals more than anything else.

    I have had dogs that when they escape stick together (Chev and Lennox), I have had dogs that when they escaped they went separate ways (Chev and Barney). Currently, Barney and Pippi have escaped I think twice together and they stay together. But then, they werent out for long enough to have become separate.

    I think dogs run off a mutually beneficial relationship whether it is with us or other dogs. At the moment my guys I think would stay together because Barney loves his wee mate to bits, she is always up for a play which he loves, and I think he feels very protective of her. Similarly, Pippi idolises Barney and when she is scared she will seek comfort from him (if I am not around). She is mean to him as well, but when she is arond him you can tell she is besotted. Similar, Chev and Lennox were best mates, but Barney and Chev were not.

    Its quite interesting the wee relationships they have.

    And in my roundabout off ona tangent way, I am saying I dont subscribe to pack behaviour. We dont use any of that pack leader type stuff at my place. Nor do we use any heirarchical stuff (i.e. patting or feeding the dominant dog first) because we think its rubbish. Our dogs are treated pretty much the same way as our kid is. If you want cuddles with mum or dad you can have them and if you are naughty you get told off.

  4. #14

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    Thank you H. I couldn't believe I wasn't allowed to use his name and I think somewhere else, someone had had h o m o bleeped out, tho' it was perfectly appropriate. I'm shocked at G a y prefix. This is American based I gather? Sadly, you don't have to explain further. I must admit, I thought it was one of you Moderators. I'll have to apologise to the main moderator on one of my chook sites, where a reference to a c r a p experience was bleeped and I was under the impression she was a bit of a fundamentalist. My main chook site is all Oz I think, and you can type any reasonable word... As a passionate word hunter, I find the hang up is rather naff. It can all be got round with rhyming slang, if wanted, but to stop me typing my dog's name... Seems disturbed, to me. Says more of them, than me.

  5. #15

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    Sorry 2 replies. I haven't answered, really. I do think that they are more loners; that in good cons, they may travel together, but with us, many live in a permanent group or 'family'. It's artificial but has been established for thousands of years, and they have a special link with us and I'm sure they are happiest not leading. Some ADORE being 2IC, or an enforcer, some are only happy when they are not given any power or decisions to live with and can just follow along, with, "I'm with them."

    I do insist I am in charge. I know the problem intrigued me, as I adopted one of my rescues and made the decision that any new dogs were not going to be allowed to dominate her. I was not going to allow her to be stood over, by a dog that was here, temporarily. I've seen favorites given artificially high status in chimps and a favorite ewe, with a ram. I did establish dominance. I did make it clear her status was linked to mine and once established, it wasn't challenged - except by a dominant b i t c h, who was here before her and altho' she desired to please me, she hated more. She never lost the hate, tho she did hate another small female, even more. I never rehomed the big dominant girl, as I felt she could have been dangerous. The original little girl DID seem to believe she had risen in importance and did begin to feel natural in her position, but many others would have been highly stressed by the unsought importance.

    I think a rule of thumb, over where we stand with our dogs, is whether they stay with us or we have to chase after them. If they are going in the wrong direction, I give a HOY, a head's up. They look back, I'm heading in another direction. They come hounding after me. I don't chase them. I'd be a stone lighter, if I did. sigh. I've been there. It's not restful.

  6. #16

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    Lala - I couldn't agree with you more re the hype in patting, feeding etc the dominant dog. It doesn't happen in our house. And same rules for kids as for dogs. If you are naughty to your room.

    As some of you would know we run a dog minding business and we also have a very dominant jrt. And can I say I don't really like the word dominant (but can't think of a better word) as people tend to view this characteristic as a negative thing. Maybe "leader" would best suit my jrt. He is just "top dog" and that is just the way it is.

    He will only play when he wants to but expects others to play with him when he instigates , he will push to the front and sit quietly for dinner to make sure he gets it first, even when he walks he looks like he has authority. He even tends to get 1st choice of toys and this is all done without a hint of aggression. And the interesting thing is no other dogs challenge him and they follow his lead. So if we say bed - Java heads to bed and the others all follow. Sometimes he puts himself to bed (I am sure he can read a clock and knows 9.30pm is bedtime) and everyone follows. I say dinner he is in the kitchen sitting and every one does the same. It is actually really interesting to watch.

    So they may not be pack animals in the wild but I think they have definitely adapted to live in groups. and there is in my opinion a heirachery within groups of dogs.

    Now sounding dumb or maybe I have it wrong but doesn't Caser Milan refer to his dogs as a pack? And I don't know about the rest of you but I love that little mexican guy!
    Last edited by ratbag jrt; 05-05-2012 at 02:13 PM.

  7. #17

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    Sorry! I hate that I'm talking too much! Your description of your jrt made me sadly remember my girl. I didn't mean I lifted her status with pats before others, etc. I couldn't be bothered and my Molly, my 2 IC, self appointed, wasn't remotely interested in first bones, first choice of treats, etc. However, she was challenged by another terrier, who deliberately would rush ahead and grab the bone she was heading for, or the toy she was going to get. As there were so many of both, Molly just shrugged and got something else, thinking it was coincidence. I was privileged to witness the moment when Molly realised what was happening - but then it was ON!!! Every time we came home, every time Molly felt insulted, it was on. Spinning snarls and teeth. I'd grab Harriet's back leg, as she came round, give her a cuff and put her in a crate, to cool down. Otherwise, as soon as she was put down, it would be on again. This happened for weeks, as now Molly was LOOKING for an insult. I remember coming back from shopping, a couple of months later, and Harriet, in a cheery, happy mood, put herself in the crate, BEFORE the fight, to save me time... Those two made me laugh! Harriet eventually became a very close chum of Molly's. She realised Molly was such good fun, and she used to watch Molly play with others, so wistfully, so sadly, with her tail wagging in sad excitement, knowing that if she tried to join in, Molly would fight her. She was totally cut out of all Molly's fun. She was so wistful, so sad, and she had to grovel for ages. Truly suck up and eventually, Molly forgave her. She was a huge natural force, but she was happy, she was secure and eventually, she let Harriet join in. Harriet had to join in knowing she could not directly challenge Molly. That she had to lose with good grace - hard to do, when you are a little terrier... Eventually, fond family members, there was no rivalry and either could lose, and it didn't matter, because Harriet just had a great time, when she was moll's 2IC. The house still feels so empty.

    I'm not mad on Ceasar Milan. I like Jan Fennell. CM has backed down from a lot of his earlier claims. Early on, he claimed he was born understanding dogs, which made me sneer and think 1) plonker 2) untrue. WHY would you not say you studied dogs? I just find there's a fair bit of chest thrusting maleness that I can do without. I find the same effect is achieved with JF, with a gentle compassion.

  8. #18
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    You will certainly be opening a can of worms now re Caesar Milan, lol.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  9. #19
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    The leader of a dog group is often the one you do not notice..the one who makes the most noise and pushes everyone around is the wannabee leader, second in command maybe.........I study dogs ( and horses) in groups. Both wild (OS), in made groups and our family dogs, as we always have at least four...I have also read a lot of dog behaviour and studied formally.

    Good leaders are often not picked by most people, because they are quiet leaders...but if you observe closely you can tell.

    You will find some groups are not that way, due to human interference...Some humans have made certain dogs in their household the leader by supporting them. This is often when you get dog fights.

    I find when i do home visits with household dogs fighting, this is often the cause......The human interference......

    Dogs are very interesting, to just observe.........
    Pets are forever

  10. #20

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    What I like most about CM is he is prepared to give dogs a second chance whereas many others have given up. Too be honest with you I have to get the kids to interpret half of what he says. I seem to have a deaf ear to accents - same goes with Manu (is that how you spell it?) on MKR's I am lucky to catch three words out of three sentences! Are we off topic?????????????? Or should I say am I off topic!!

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