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Thread: Show dog questions.

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lala View Post
    Sorry, what exactly does outcrossed mean?

    Another breed brought into the line? And if so, what breed is it?
    Not another breed, (although that is being done in some circles), just an unrelated dog of the same breed.

    It is usually used by breeders to inject genetic diversity into their linebreeding, or introduce certain desirable traits and has
    the potential to reduce the probability of pups being subject to disease or reducing genetic abnormalities (only within the first generation). It is also possible to increase the numbers of pups carrying a disease recessively, so just as important to take care with the selection proccess.

    Outcrossing is not accepted as far as I know in ANKC regulations, and dogs not eligable for registration, although I might be wrong.

    Outcrossing is becoming the normal practice in purposeful breeding, working dogs, certain breeds etc..
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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  2. #82
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    OK hold on....so outcrossing is an unrelated dog of the same breed...

    So if you arent outcrossing, you are crossing related dogs?

    I am not sure I understand correctly....I would have thought that outcrossing would be the norm rather than the exception

  3. #83
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    Do most people line breed then?

  4. #84
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    Thats right lala,

    Outcrossing is same breed - unrelated by ancestory/lines eg, the family living in Mildura who are totally unrelated to you

    Line breeding - is breeding within the same lines eg grandfather to Auntie, uncle to third cousin, second cousin to half brother once removed

    Inbreeding -Mother to son, brother to sister, father to daughter
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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  5. #85
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    Yea I knew what line breeding and inbreeding were...

    I just thought the rest would have been called....shck horror..."breeding" LOL

  6. #86

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    here's a question :

    if lots of registered breeders are linebreeding, what is the difference between this and the stafford breeders who are breeding for the blue colour? Aren't those stafford breeders doing exactly the same thing? Now this is a question from someone who really knows nothing about breeding so please no one take offence!

  7. #87
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    I am not sure how the disscussions on genetics and hereditary conditions in purebred dogs has evoked this reaction and why some are so upset by it.

    Im pretty sure there was no "breeder bashing", only what we could do to improve the growing rate of conditions in some breeds.
    And yes, I certainly dont agree with the way the ANKC and SOME breeds clubs are doing nothing or very little to improve the welfare of pure bred dogs into the future and experts agree the showing environment has a lot to do with the lack of motivation to demand change.
    If you search specialty vet sites, they will be of the same opinion, so its not just my opinion alone.

    My lengthy rant above on how the appearance of cavaliers has changed in the last 60 years due to the want of a more "fashionable" look that will win titles, is a subject very close to my heart, and is only the tip of the iceberg.
    Many, not all of these breeds are suffering, and while many responsible breeders are doing there utmost to improve the long term outlook, it can never be enough while those breeds with exaggerated features which limit the dogs ability to breathe... or function,continue to win titles sanctioned by the breed standards in the holy grail of the ANKC.

    But I will leave this thread and topic, so as not to cause any more drama, and allow mac and crested to answer my mate jacks very valid question.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  8. #88
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    my 2 cents......... no doubt ill get flamed here but i have a thick skin...

    if you're a breeder, you should be rego'd with the ANKC, stick to their recomendations and guildlines, regester all your litters etc.

    same as if you are a mechanic, you need to have the paper work, register with the MTA etc.... yes there are good mechanics and back mechanics... same with breeders...

    if you arent rego'd, your just a guy with a spanner......yes you may be good at it, but your not doing it the right way.

    if you have a car, you need to rego it with the relvant governing body of your state...... dont like it? dont rego it? let it sit in your yard and rust away........

    yes there are some rules which we dont like.... until they get changed, we cant do much about it.... either deal with it, or go underghround till you get caught.....

    anyone who doesnt comply or rego with the ANKC is a BYB..... yes that term carries negative meanings, but if you dont want to be tarred with that brush, follow the rules set.......

    now bring on the flames!
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  9. #89
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    This is the reason I do not register ANY pups, my family has for for a very long time, including grandparents who showed, seen the detrimental effects on breeds due to breed standards and "appearance", and I dont agree with it for some breeds and never will.

    Over the past 30 years, none of our lines have been bred before 5yrs and still heart clear,(which means we very rarely breed) and today, all of our dogs and pups (when grown) remain heart clear, we have on occasion very carefully out crossed, seeking to improve the size of the dome and nose, whilst retaining comformation and temperment, which has been very successful thus far, but is a work in progress.
    I am very proud of our work thus far improving the health of the breed. And I sure am not alone in my thinking here, my family in victoria and myself in queensland have a large network of breeders who are abandoning breed clubs and archaic ideals, and working under guidance from vet genetic specialists..
    So you see Emma?, my puppies would not be welcome in the ANKC register, breed clubs or show ring. Because HAPPILY, we would not be able to fit the standard,
    Why wouldn't the ANKC accept your dogs registration if you outcrossed them? Unless you outcrossed to unpapered or other breed dogs. I don't see what point you're proving not registering your animals - you're in fact bottle necking the genetics further. No registered breeder is allowed to share their dogs with you (by the COE) and you in turn cannot put your supposedly healthier lines back into the 'show dog' gene pool. So what have you achieved? Nothing but for your own benefit really and NOT for the benefit of the breed. There is no reason a dog that wont win shows cant be put on main register - that is up to the breeder to decide that. So really you have no excuse of why your dogs would be refused unless you're not a registered breeder or are crossing your dogs with god knows what.

    And this is where the problem lies ... when BYBers say 'oh but we health test and question our puppy buys so that makes us awesome people'. You're only really benefitting yourselves in that progress. They cannot contribute to the registered breed population around the world when they shed pedigree papers, and neither can they benefit from other lines. So really it comes down to producing a 'better product'. Registries are NOT only about showing, my dogs have long pedigrees and not one show dog in there (in fact that would be a bad thing) but I refuse to not register them as their lines are becoming rarer and rarer because people did what you are doing now - not registering dogs or not keeping official paperwork and the good dogs eventually disappear into the ether. So the self righteous ranting against ANKC registered breeders is really something that cannot be justified when registering your animals is 1) way more then producing show dogs and 2) allows you access to more then just Australia, it opens the world as ANKC are FCI recognised. Maybe it doesnt matter to people who cannot see past their own backyard and pocket.

  10. #90
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    cavalierqld

    I think you're wrong about how common inbreeding is...

    Most breeders who are not into purebreds (inbreeding), would look for unrelated or very distantly related dogs, which is why going internationally for mates is popular - why they import dogs from overseas or semen. And then those puppies are highly sought after - because they bring more genetic diversity to the breed. If there is not enough genetic diversity - the breed becomes unviable and unable to continue. Eg the Leonburger - they actually went outside the breed to increase the numbers. And with Dalmations - again - they had to go outside the breed to reduce the urinary crystal problems.

    If I saw the puppies ancestry involved close relations mated - I would avoid those puppies.

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