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Thread: Queensland Mastiffs ??

  1. #61
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    Yep, I did come across contadictory, sorry about that.
    My family did at one time show the dogs for awhile but we have all remained registered breeders just to keep in touch with new info etc. The dogs I have now are from the same lines my grandmother had, my mum also still breeds. I/we know the breed standards back to front and I know the faults to look for.
    Im sure some of my cavies markings would not be the perfect "show standard", they have perfect conformation and temperment according to the standard, with the exception of one little ruby female who has a slightly nervous temperment so she was spayed, and no MVD in 4 gens, with a lifespan of 10 -12 years which is amazing for cavaliers who's lifespan due to this disease is greatly decreased in around 90%.
    We are exeptionally proud of our Cavaliers, hence take it personally when the BYB tags are thrown at people that dont deserve it sometimes by people who do!

    My point really is the BYB tag, seems to be bandied around here and in the media who label anyone not showing dogs as bad people if they breed?
    As Mac pointed out there are good and bad in both, we have "registered" and "BYB" and those labels are very misleading we should be promoting "responsible" or "irresponsble "breeding as there are just as many irresponsible registered breeders as unregisterd breeders.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  2. #62
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    Well crested just looking at my scruffy bunch here, I can see there is no way they will ever win a dog show, they have all just been clipped as its so hot here in queensland and they feel the heat terribly, yep no candidates here..lol.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  3. #63
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    Does this mean your original "stock" for want of a better word come from show backgrounds?? and if they are true to type etc, are likely to be winners??

    I will never understand why anyone would not do enough research to find a breeder who does it all and covers it all when they are likely to spend 12-15 years living with their pet. Mind boggling.

  4. #64
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    My dogs don't languish in concrete runs, but are on the lounge every night and in the house every day. I remember their pet names very well, in fact with electronic online show entries have trouble remembering their show names.

    yes I will rehome unsuccessful or incorrect younger dogs, no it's got nothing to do with colour etc but I will not breed from a pup who has not got the best bite, or one who goes over size, to do this would be irresponsible. So they are rehomed while still young and the families they go to love them and they love living with them. They are happy outgoing dogs who make the adjustment well.

    Does anyone here with a rescue think their dog pines away for their past owner??? I have two dogs myself one bought at 5 months and one at 17 months, both made the adjustment to my house quickly, both are happy to see their breeders at shows but equally happy to follow me away from them.

    Contrary to what many believe lots of show people do do the right thing by their dogs.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC View Post
    Does this mean your original "stock" for want of a better word come from show backgrounds?? and if they are true to type etc, are likely to be winners??

    I will never understand why anyone would not do enough research to find a breeder who does it all and covers it all when they are likely to spend 12-15 years living with their pet. Mind boggling.
    I think that everyone should. My only argument has been that what defines a good breeder in my mind is not whether they breed 'pure' or show their dogs. It's whether they breed and test for health, intelligence and temperament. I am certainly not tarnishing all show breeders with the same brush. I am well aware now that whilst they may be united by their love for showing and winning, not everyone is in it for the same reasons. Some breeders do everything right and show their dogs, others do just about everything wrong and show their dogs - whether they show or not I have found to be somewhat irrelevant and not a good predictor of the quality of their dogs.

    My only other concern is that in some breeds, I don't agree with the current standards - I don't think that the dogs winning the shows should be winning the shows and held as a good example of the breed. They are in cases, unrecognisable from the original dogs that were bred for a particular purpose and in many cases, are no longer capable of performing those functions. I understand that times have changed and the jobs performed by many dogs no longer exist so some change and evolution is necessary. But who decides how they should change? Who decided that a frog curvy backed GSD was the future for this breed? Or the pug should get a shorter and shorter face? Or that Great Danes should be getting finer, Mastiffs more wrinkled etc?

    I think everyone accepts that the world has changed - dogs have been with man for a long time now and hopefully always will be. But instead of this gradual reinterpretation of the breed standards that we currently see, I think this needs to be a planned and managed process so that we can continue truly to produce better dogs.

  6. #66
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    The other thing that gets under my skin too a bit is everyone talks of show dogs and how bad many champions and top winning dogs etc are. But from what I can gather from posts few members here spend much time around the rings or know many people that are breeders & showies yet are very critical of them.

    People are led to believe that many top winning dogs are being chased for use when in fact, I think one of the most popular stud dogs in Whippets at the moment does in fact not show these days due to an injury he sustained while taking on a kangaroo several years ago and last years BIS bitch from the open class is just now having her first litter.

  7. #67
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    Mac - My cavies and those of my family and any resulting puppies have been bred for temperment, conformation and above all "health". Some I believe would be show quality, others may have a freckle in the wrong place, but impeccable health, my male I selected, has a slightly larger skull that would most likely not conform to the "perfect" look judges are looking for but we are slowly trying to increase the skull size to reverse the Uk -Aus breed standard of breeding smaller skulls increasing the risk of Syringomyelia, so he goes on holidays down south on a regular basis to meet the girls and is an important part of our breeding plan so yes, they may never get a title but they are healthy and thats what I aim for and am very proud.

    Buying a pure bred can be really difficult, a few years ago, I assisted a friend in Qld looking to buy a quality Labrador. She already had one, was registered with a prefix and was looking to maybe breed some time in the future. She had moved from melb where she was a member of the labrador club so she asked for them for reccomendations as to suitable breeders in qld.
    To cut a long story short, we were both a little naive, were not exactly happy with the breeders we visited but chose one anyway who lived 6 hours drive away in hatton vale,she waited 6 weeks for a litter to be born, picked up her pup, who was lovely, recontacted the breeder 2.5 yrs later in relation to a mating chose the sire via papers photos etc, took the dog at the required date (prepaid), only to be told the chosen sire was not functional(unable to do the deed) and would she consider either mating to her FATHER, which the breeder explained was acceptable practice or AI, those were her only choices and the breeder refused a refund...so we just left.
    But his breeder had told us her dogs numbered 4-5 they lived as pets in her house and mum and pups were waiting in her house when we picked up the pup, so didnt get to see the outside area, but on returning saw a rows of dogs in FILTHY concrete pens .
    I understand this was unlucky with her not having suitable contacts in QLD and me not being familiar with the breed but in effect, although her and her dogs were registered, she shows her animals and it appeared to be a suitable option...we had in effect, in my opinion purchased a dog from a puppy mill, it was a go home and bang head against wall and repeat "stupid" a dozen times moment for me..LOL.
    So I think sometimes, despite best efforts, it sure is a mine field out there for buyers!
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  8. #68
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    Mac - I have a picture of your newfies on the couch, oh my....what a big couch you must have , they are beautiful! When I lived in melb, I had a good friend who had 2 newfies, when we would go around there for dinner, they COULD and WOULD walk up and help themselves to the fish and chips on the table, they were the perfect high to join us for dinner..I used to say "lets go to Annetes for slobber and chips"
    They always opened up the edible xmas presents under the tree on xmas eve, they could even open glass jars of lollies, heck, even i cant get those open
    Such lovable dogs and extremely handsome!

    I certainly dont want to offend you regarding the implications of showing and breed standards, I certainly dont mean too and I can see you care very much for your dogs and the breed in general and if I was looking for a newfie for someone, I would certainly be looking for you.

    This issue stems from the ANKC and the standards imposed on breeds, most breed standards are exactly the same in Australia as they are in the UK. In Australia, pedigree dogs are also judged primarily on their appearance and how closely they adhere to the breed standard. Unfortunately in Australia, we have also seen a preference for some of the more exaggerated and extreme physical traits such as excessive skin folds, extremely shortened and flattened faces, large bulging eyes, very long backs, very short legs and massive or too small heads. These exaggerations can and are, seriously compromising the animal's quality of life, including loss of functionality in some breeds.

    There really needs to be a fundamental change to the way dogs are judged and the breed standards imposed.This would involve the revising of breed standards and acknowledging the individual welfare and health issues in certain breeds. The ANKC needs to prohibit the registration of 1st and 2nd degree matings, to open studbooks and outcross (with another breed) then backcross where necessary to increase the genetic diversity within particular breeds especially those with limited gene pools.
    Someone on this site once said, it cant be done ..Why? We can put a man on the moon but are unable or unwilling to improve the lives of the dogs we breed in order to get a title?

    I dont believe its ok when registered "puppy mills" with more dogs than can be properly cared for breed and rehome so many dogs in the quest for the "title", I would be tempted to reply in their own words "if you want more dogs, go to a shelter and give a homeless dog a home"
    I think you would agree, that whilst these standards are accepted and rewarded, despite the often cruel outcomes for the animals involved, there will always be those who breed for the title, rather than health and welfare...and there in lies the problem, this archaic system rewards unethical breeders and are promptly able to sell off the "mistakes" from their unethical mass breeding to unsuspecting buyers.

    So it does quite get under my skin as well, when I have been told here that I am a BYB, when my only crime is to reject those archaic detrimental aspects in breed standards and choose to breed for temperment, health and welfare as a priority.
    I hear over and over here and in the media,those bad backyard breeders, buy from a registered breeder? This statement is very misleading, we should delete the registered aspect and advocate the "responsible breeder" a term used for any breeder who's breeding encompasses HEALTH and the abiilty to home any puppies before anything else.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  9. #69
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    Bottles, well said! ANKC needs to evaporate...it is well past its useby date, and getting a bit smelly. What we need is a new governing body which will revise breed standards which rewards health, functionality and welfare first, therefore taking away the incentive for unethical breeders to show unhealthy animals.
    This would be a win win situation, the show community could be proud of a new ethical system which rewards responsible breeding and our ethical breeders. Purebreds , over time will become healthier, more functional with better quality of life and buyers will be assured of healthier pups.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  10. #70
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    I don't own Newfies. I own Whippets, Borzoi and a Gordon. Being in the ring a couple of times a month I'm well aware how breeds are judged and standards. No one has to inform me of them. I like the English standard for my breed and aim towards it. I'm not going to be like the US breeders and change it to suit myself.
    People are what ruin breeds not standards because each breed has a temperament in the standard and calls for a healthy dog.

    I will also line breed and have inbred from time to time. Needs careful consideration yes (though no longer accepted by the ANKC). The Archives for my breed allow me to figure out lots of things and how close I can get them.
    Last edited by MAC; 03-15-2012 at 12:59 PM.

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