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Thread: Is this behaviour being aggressive

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meredith View Post
    Newfsie. Big dogs who crowd my small dog are being rude. Dogs who get in my dog's way when she is chasing a ball are being rude. Dogs who bark all the time are bing rude. And if their owners allow them to do these things they are being inconsiderate. My dog is trained. She will come instantly if she is called. She will leave if she is told to. She will drop wherever she might be. This thread has just convinced me that my dog does not have aggression issues. I think she possibly does have BC in her mix and the post re the border collies was most useful as also was the one from the person with the staffy.
    Territory and Municipal Services - Fenced Dog Park

    Meredith

    It would be nice if you didn't delete your posts so we can all make our own assessment of your question, and not guess based on other people's responses.

    In most states (not sure about the ACT) it is illegal for dogs to harrass other dogs, people or animals whether or not physical harm is done. In practice this usually means asking before a person lets their dog get in another dog's face, but this doesn't often happen at dog off lead spaces - as most owners assume that all dogs are fine with the direct greeting approach or they wouldn't be there. This is unfortunate and really really common.

    But in the ACT - dog park (fenced dog parks) ettiquette is no toys- because some dogs get grumpy if they think another dog wants their toy and the rules are to minimise the chance of fights. It's not about being "right" or "fair" it's about minimising the chances of dog fights and injuries.

    Most people I know with highly trained dogs - do not go near fenced dog parks, and some avoid off lead dog spaces too because they don't want to risk injury to their dog from rude untrained dogs. My dog is fairly well trained. Will do what your dog does. Sometimes she gets in other dogs way but it's not always deliberate. People aren't always very accurate with their ball throws, and sometimes my dog is playing chasey with another dog and will run through any open space and doesn't notice some other dog on a retrieve line. The best thing about my dog is she is a complete grovel dog and makes every effort to make friendly non-threatening greetings. But she has been known to tell off rude dogs that jump on her without being properly introduced. And I agree owners who think that this isn't their problem are rude. I know several who are not welcome at a not quite fenced dog park I go to - because their dogs went from rude dogs to attack dogs. And another that now has to wear a muzzle at dog club for the same reason.

    I think you expect a little too much of your average fenced dog park user and their dogs and it might be for the best for you and your dog if you don't go there to chuck balls for your dog.

  2. #22
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    They don't actually take a ball themselves, other dog owners in the park do. And they have another dog who loves the dog park.

    We are so lucky with our off leash area. It is so massive that no one minds if people throw balls, no one has to stay anywhere near rude dogs if they don't want to and only people with effective control over their dog go there because it is not fenced. Though getting your dog out of the pond when it is time to go can be a bit of a problem for a few people, including me sometimes.

  3. #23
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    Meredith... I think you need to take a little step back. Reading through the thread, I don't believe anyone is saying bad things about your dog specifically. Yes, there has been discussion about dogs in general, but I can't find one instance of someone being specifically harsh about your dog in particular.

    We are all dog lovers here... We don't just go around attacking people's loved companions.

    I think in your original post you were asking for a 'yes/no' answer to quite a complex question. I don't think anyone here can give you that answer you want because we don't know your dog and without observing the behaviour, it is really hard to tell.

    Lots of really quite experienced doggy people have offered you their interpretation and advice. And I think you need to be able to understand- people often give information in different ways. The medium of text is a difficult one anyway... Then you have to have flexibility for different styles, different interpretations... Just as your opening post might have been less well worded than it could possibly have been.

    But at the end if the day, this is a forum for discussion and it is the diversity of opinions and personalities that makes it an environment of continuous learning... And it is a little worrisome that you have taken so many comments seemigly out of context and read them as purely directed at your pup.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meredith View Post
    I have been trying really hard to delete this thread but I don't know how to. I have found some of the comments very upsetting (I have been sad all today because of them) and I feel I have done my dog a great injustice. She is the sweetest little thing (not a little white fluffy) but a 10 kg mixed breed left at the RSPCA at five months and the runt of her litter with one ear up and one ear down. One of my nicknames for her is twinkle toes because that describes her accurately. She is living her life in the fast lane and she loves chasing balls and she loves going to the dog park because there other people throw balls for her even though I suggest they don't. One week there was an abandoned soccer ball down there and one gentleman was kicking it for her and she was leaping up into the air and catching it with all paws off the ground. She had a wonderful time and so did the gentleman kicking the ball. She is also really gentle and extremely intelligent and I love her dearly and I am so sorry that I have exposed her to all this. What Mac said about the border collies describes her and I am quite satisfied that she does not have aggression issues. I find it offensive to be told that I should keep my aggressive dog away from the dog park for the sake of other dogs. You don't know her. I do. Please stop saying these things about her.

    No one told you to stay away from the dog park for the sake of other dogs. We told you to stay away from them for the sake of YOUR dog. No one said she had aggression issues, we said she gets highly aroused (which is normal) and it sounds like she mildly guards balls both things that can escalate to aggression eventually if you dont manage it properly and continue to put your dog in a stressful situation. You are the one who asked if your dogs behaviour was aggressive or not, but the answer is not as cut and dry as yes or no and no one said yes, I can only imagine your reaction if we did say a flat out yes your dog is aggressive.

    Why come ask for advice or even ask a question if the only answer that you want to hear is no, instead of the truth.

    No one is saying she isnt a sweet dog. But in the end it doesnt matter where she came from or what she looks like. It matters that being around other dogs in that situation causes her stress so either go to the park knowing that if someone shows up with a barky dog ir a ball you need to leave (because its best for your dog) or dont go to the park and just play ball with her at home. You can throw a tennis ball or kick a soccor ball for her at home it doesnt need to be done at the park where she gets so stressed because she values balls so highly.

  5. #25
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    Meredith

    You can't delete this thread. Only a moderator can. I would like to keep the thread, because I think other people might find it helpful even if you're too upset right now to see that. We do mean well for your dog and yourself and you could learn much here if you can be open to what the experienced people have to say. There are some really good professional dog trainers who post here, and some crap ones, so it would be up to you to decide what to take on board and what to ignore.

    Nothing we write here - is the least bit personal - because how could any of us know you personally?

    I recommend you find a copy of Turid Rugaas's dvd or book about Calming Signals - dog body language so you can see for yourself what your dog is trying to say to you and other dogs and what other dogs are saying.

    Most of all, it is up to you to protect your dog from the (inappropriate) kindness of strangers.

    For example - when I take my dog to the beach - if I see toddlers or fishermen with bait buckets or some joggers, and now beach towels (since she decided that rolling on stranger's beach towels is fun) - I put her on lead and reward her for attention on me until we are past that distraction. And then I can let her off again to run and have fun.

    She also goes on lead when I see people with balls and dogs because she will take the ball if the other dog abandons it or gives it to her, and then rip the ball to pieces. So I put her on lead and only let her off if the owner of the ball doesn't mind if she should happen to destroy the ball, but mostly - I don't want her to have fun doing that because it isn't something I want her to think is ok let alone fun.

    You can't fix other people. You might be able to fix their dogs but that might not be instant or desirable. For example some dogs will do anything for food except leave you alone.

    If you still want the thread deleted - I suggest you ask Morgan to do it.

  6. #26
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    Wow, i only just saw this thread! Meredith, i have no idea of the original post since it has been deleted so i was only able to pickup on what the rest of the thread had to say.

    Has this got to do with Lottie? Rexy had - and still does now and then the same problems, it was actually so bad i had to stop taking him to the park for a couple of months because i could not get a handle on the situation and found myself in the worst mood every time i went down to the off-leash park. I don't agree with the other posters in regards to not taking her to the park anymore, if anything it helped in my case. In saying that i only attend the one OL park now instead of a multitude of places and i have found a place where i know the regulars, their dogs and they know mine.

    He has a long dog aggressive backstory but i won't go into it. He has his own ball that he takes to the park (doesn't like tennis balls, but flat basketballs). He doesn't seem to be aggressive if another dog touches his ball - he just waits for them to put it down and he will go back and get it, however he doesn't like to be teased, chased or taunted by other dogs when he brings his ball back and when it gets to a certain point he will nip/bite - tell them to back off, and it really comes down to the other dog on whether it escalates or not (most of the regulars dogs will just leave him be) and that is the only time i intervene, i don't believe it's a aggressive tendency at all i think that dogs have the right to tell other dogs to "get off my back" so to speak.

    Usually he won't touch any other dogs ball whilst his basketball is in play. Sometimes i put the ball back in the car to give him a rest (he will just keep going to the point he vomits otherwise) and instead of chasing the others dog ball he will chase the dog instead, nipping at the legs. I will pull him up for this because i don't find it a desirable trait however i've been told by a trainer that it's a working dog trait and he does it naturally (not in a aggressive manner, it just pee's some dogs off). Doesn't matter though, i still try to pull him up on it and most times he will stop mid run and come back to me - there are still times that he will play up, but i am lucky i have found a park with people that are understanding (there are about 12 regulars) and they often comment on how far he has come since we've had him (we use to have him on a muzzle and lead). My suggestion is if you enjoy going to the OL park then continue going, find a place where you and your dog are comfortable, maybe somewhere that only has a few regulars where you can get to know the regular users and their dogs. I have found some fantastic friends through my park and i also think that taking Rex regularly has helped tremendously with his dog aggressive tendencies, if i had decided to never go back he would still have those problems today.

    I forgot to add that he also gets aggressive when he hears other dogs barking at each other or endup in a fight. He will run over to add his 2 cents in. If i even hear a growl or i can see two other dogs don't like each other and may get into a fight i will put him straight on the lead.
    Last edited by Kuri_89; 02-25-2012 at 10:54 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Villain & Flirtt View Post
    Meredith... I think you need to take a little step back. Reading through the thread, I don't believe anyone is saying bad things about your dog specifically. Yes, there has been discussion about dogs in general, but I can't find one instance of someone being specifically harsh about your dog in particular.

    We are all dog lovers here... We don't just go around attacking people's loved companions.

    I think in your original post you were asking for a 'yes/no' answer to quite a complex question. I don't think anyone here can give you that answer you want because we don't know your dog and without observing the behaviour, it is really hard to tell.

    Lots of really quite experienced doggy people have offered you their interpretation and advice. And I think you need to be able to understand- people often give information in different ways. The medium of text is a difficult one anyway... Then you have to have flexibility for different styles, different interpretations... Just as your opening post might have been less well worded than it could possibly have been.

    But at the end if the day, this is a forum for discussion and it is the diversity of opinions and personalities that makes it an environment of continuous learning... And it is a little worrisome that you have taken so many comments seemigly out of context and read them as purely directed at your pup.
    Couldn't agree more with this. We strayed off topic a bit with our discussion about stereotypical small white fluffy dogs and off leash areas, etc. But that wasn't directed at you. Your question just brought up other topics and in the end everyone just gave their opinion but no one meant to judge your dog or you.

    You obviously care heaps about your dog, they are well trained and get plenty of exercise.

  8. #28
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    Yep...........We do stray. It happens in every thread. And we can only ever go by what is posted and how we perceive it. That is why i often recommend for people to ask a experienced person to see what the dog is like, we can only give possibilities, probabilities and some likely outcomes. Which are never really about the specific dog, because we do not know that dog.......

    I even stray when i do see a dog and owner face to face...I tell them of all the likely scenarios that can happen and might happen. And even tell them of events that have occurred and how they can be prevented. it is trying to prevent future problems/injuries/mishaps and is never as personal as this was obviously taken...........
    Pets are forever

  9. #29
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    I was going to respond, but I am quite speechless.

  10. #30

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    Me too Beloz.........

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