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Thread: Design a new breed

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by 99bottles View Post
    I took 3 years just to buy a dog...
    Out of curiosity, what did you end up buying?

  2. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nashems View Post
    Out of curiosity, what did you end up buying?
    A cross.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by 99bottles View Post
    Well whether it happens to be true in your case or not doesn't mean it's never true. I was merely using you as an example of something that does happen - ie people choosing to own purebreds not for their original purpose. I don't know you or what you do with your dogs so of course, like everything you are saying about me (such as the working breeders not wanting to welcome me to their kennels) they're all assumptions.
    Let me be very clear. I have said and assumed nothing about you. I stated my opinion ('I doubt...') and asked a question ('Where have you...'). Neither are assumptions. You used an assumption specifically about me to prove a point and your argument was flawed. The argument could have been worded in rather different ways to make your point, but you chose to make an example of me, and got it wrong.

    I don't care if you don't like to be corrected. The vast majority of members here will know very well that I pick my words carefully at all times.

    What I would like to know is this: why pack, then defense then prey drives in that order? You won't get a working animal with drives in that hierarchy, you'll get a softer, more anxious dog than the current mob of showies. And to what benefit the broader muzzle? To make the Dobe more Lab like? I'd really like to hear the reasons behind the changes, because from what you've said so far, I think you are a long way off the mark.

  4. #74
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    Wow....did you not have a dog for those three years, i could never have managed without dogs for three years.

    That is what I like about the pure breeds I love. I want my house pets, I go for the newfies. if i get them from puppy I will know what i have exactly as the end result. A happy gregarious, friendly people loving water dog, who I can use for water rescue, drafting and Obedience Trials.
    If I want a work dog.......As we are on a property and had lots of sheep, I can go to a good Kelpie breeder, who knows his dogs. i can ask for a paddock dog or a yard dog and I will have the exact dog, I need for the job. We can buy them trained or as puppies and we have always had great dogs, who lived to be about 16.

    If I want to have my family protector and best friend, I can go t some really good GSD Kennels i know and have my beloved Breed....From particular kennels I will know exactly what i will get, temp wise and health wise.

    I just know that i can find what i want and with the correct training and socialization get the dog I want........

    In Wangaratta there are some amazing Dobies that we often meet in Obedience trials...They are handsome, fit (also shown) and hard clever workers. And most of all friendly. But I am sure they would be protective of their property...I cannot see why anyone would want to change their line. i would have to search high and low, before i would think I could do better
    Pets are forever

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfsie View Post
    if i get them from puppy I will know what i have exactly as the end result.
    Definitely not directing this at you Newfsie coz sounds like you know what yer doing.... but it doesn't work that way for everyone unfortunately. I know MANY people who raised their dog from a puppy and still to this day are astounded as to why their dog is anxious, scared, aggressive etc, when in theory the breed should have a happy, friendly personality.

  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Villain & Flirtt View Post
    Let me be very clear. I have said and assumed nothing about you. I stated my opinion ('I doubt...') and asked a question ('Where have you...'). Neither are assumptions. You used an assumption specifically about me to prove a point and your argument was flawed. The argument could have been worded in rather different ways to make your point, but you chose to make an example of me, and got it wrong.

    I don't care if you don't like to be corrected. The vast majority of members here will know very well that I pick my words carefully at all times.

    What I would like to know is this: why pack, then defense then prey drives in that order? You won't get a working animal with drives in that hierarchy, you'll get a softer, more anxious dog than the current mob of showies. And to what benefit the broader muzzle? To make the Dobe more Lab like? I'd really like to hear the reasons behind the changes, because from what you've said so far, I think you are a long way off the mark.
    According to one of the best breeders I have met in Australia (uses Von Roth dogs etc but then her own lines too and has the money to import proven dogs from overseas), a lot of the breeders here have focused on bringing forward the sight-hound elements within the doberman - ie they breed dogs that exhibit these qualities in greater intensity. So over many generations, we have achieved pointier, thinner dogs with very short coats. If you were instead, to breed to heavier dogs - focus on favouring the rottie etc genes within the doberman, you get a dog with a slightly thicker coat and less pointy. If I could name names I would tell you some of the breeders breeding for the different types. Just watch a world dog show - European dobermans vs Australian/American. You would be hard-pressed to say the dogs were of the same breed.

    You did make an assumption, you said that the working breeders would not welcome me. I have not found that to be the case at all. I admire their dogs and respect what they do and have spent days hanging out with them and their dogs. I just want something slightly different. A lot of them actually understand and have been helpful.

    I will go into what I hope to achieve at another time. I will say that we're not trying to create a dog that will come first in every dog sport. We are also not looking to create a dog that would be an effective protection dog as compared to a Malinois or something. Schutzhund etc wasn't developed for dobermans. Doesn't mean we can't have fun competing, but the sport was developed specifically for shepherds and they are different dogs. This will be a dog to suit today's needs (well our needs at least).

    And when did I say that I don't like to be corrected? You're big on putting words in other people's mouths. I am constantly seeking the opinions of knowledgeable and competent dog breeders/owners/trainers. One person can never know everything, I want as much input as possible from other people as I can get, and I am always grateful for it. Unfortunately though, whether it's intentional or not, your criticism is not coming across as constructive, so I don't really see it as a correction tool.

    My argument wasn't flawed. My argument was that people today more often than not buy a particular breed for reasons other than its original purpose, and consequently, the dogs are changing. The example I used to support my argument was wrong - possibly. Like I said, I don't know you or what you do with your dogs. The doberman was developed as a personal guardian. Did you buy a doberman to be a personal guardian? If not, then my example is right too.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nashems View Post
    Definitely not directing this at you Newfsie coz sounds like you know what yer doing.... but it doesn't work that way for everyone unfortunately. I know MANY people who raised their dog from a puppy and still to this day are astounded as to why their dog is anxious, scared, aggressive etc, when in theory the breed should have a happy, friendly personality.
    It's a relevant point, Nashems. When you've been 'around' dogs/ breeds/ breeders long enough, the risk of the unknown becomes exponentially lower. It's like an internal book of knowledge which grows with every experience. Yes, even then an odd one can pop up- even in pure lines. I'd guess, though, it probably happens more frequently in crossed lines. Though some crossed lines are as heavily research as pure ones- ie the search and rescue BC crosses Newfs has mentioned. I think it depends heavily on the breeders knowledge of the genetics at play when planning a litter.

    We all start somewhere, the important bit is that we remain open to learning. I'd say often, in the example you give, ownership, management and handling can be as much a factor as genetics.

  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by newfsie View Post
    Wow....did you not have a dog for those three years, i could never have managed without dogs for three years.

    That is what I like about the pure breeds I love. I want my house pets, I go for the newfies. if i get them from puppy I will know what i have exactly as the end result. A happy gregarious, friendly people loving water dog, who I can use for water rescue, drafting and Obedience Trials.
    If I want a work dog.......As we are on a property and had lots of sheep, I can go to a good Kelpie breeder, who knows his dogs. i can ask for a paddock dog or a yard dog and I will have the exact dog, I need for the job. We can buy them trained or as puppies and we have always had great dogs, who lived to be about 16.

    If I want to have my family protector and best friend, I can go t some really good GSD Kennels i know and have my beloved Breed....From particular kennels I will know exactly what i will get, temp wise and health wise.

    I just know that i can find what i want and with the correct training and socialization get the dog I want........

    In Wangaratta there are some amazing Dobies that we often meet in Obedience trials...They are handsome, fit (also shown) and hard clever workers. And most of all friendly. But I am sure they would be protective of their property...I cannot see why anyone would want to change their line. i would have to search high and low, before i would think I could do better
    It was hard not having a dog. But I have a perfect dog at the moment (for me) so I can say it was worth the wait. We are not trying to improve the doberman, we would be creating a new breed that was more like a doberman than other breed, but fundamentally it would be a different breed.

  9. #79
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    LMAO V&P at the waaahmbulance.

    99, 3 years to buy a dog??????? Far out....I could never wait 3 years. After we lost our first dog, Lennox, I found Barney 2 days later. After we lost Chevy, we got our wee Pippi about 5 weeks later.

    It sounds terrible, but when my dogs "move on", I am ready to bring a new baby in almost immediately. It's not that I dont love the one I have lost, I do - I adore them all. I think it is more because I have a rule that 2 dogs is the limit (ok I dont, but the OH does LOL) and I wold love to have more so as soon as I have room....something like that. hard to explain but it does maybe sound a bit cold. I still grieve for the other pet though, Lennox has been gone for 7 years now and I still get sad if I think about it too much, and the same for Chevy who has been gone for almost 3.

    I just cant imagine waiting that long for a dog. I would love to have a number of different purebreds, but becuse I cant wait, I probably will never own one.

    99, just out of curiosity, what is the cross you chose?

  10. #80
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    7 years for me... had 4 different living situations, none of which permitted a dog. Finally got jack of it and convinced my partner to move again to accommodate a dog. Never again! Life is just so much better with em. Hoping to get our second dog later this year.

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