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Thread: Where did dogs come from ? 33,000 year old skull found.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lala View Post
    I know it wasnt directed at me, but it was a question I assume was posed to everyone and I answered it.

    I personally, as stated in a previous post, dont have any real opinions about evolution or creation. I like the mystery

    And technically, from what I have read, there isnt any REAL evidence we evolved from monkeys (or correctly, apes). There are gaps in that evidence that can be used to argue that we didnt evolve from them.
    yeah thats fine

    i just find it interesting what ppl believe, i dont judge either way but i have my opinions lol

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lala View Post
    You'd have to be a moron to argue they didn't exist. Even someone highly religous who knew they werent mentioned in the bible cant refute the fact they walked the earth.
    In the Bible, in Job chapter 40, it says,"look at the Behemoth which i made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox, what strength he has in his loins what power in the muscels in his belly, his tail sways like a cedar, the sinews of his thighs are close knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs are like rods of iron, he ranks first among the works of God."
    I believe this is a description of a dinosaur, somthing like a Brachiosaurus.

    Also described in Job chapter 41 is the Leviathan, which is a dragon like creature that may also be a description of a dinosaur.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    Evolution: Library: Evolution of the Dog

    I don't know how anyone can look at the diversity of shapes and sizes of dog breeds and not believe in evolution or genetic enhancement for chosen purpose by selective breeding. Whether it's by human choice or by survival of the fittest (breeders), how can you say it doesn't happen.

    If there were no genetic changes - we'd all be identical to each other. All dogs would look the same, all cats would look the same, all birds would look the same...

    And it just seems logical that the critters that survive long enough to have critters of their own and raise those to maturity - they're the ones whose genes get passed on.

    And then there are natural genetic mutations that happen all the time - from viruses and radiation changes to dna.

    Personally the only way I can wrap my head around the idea that someone would not believe in evolution is to say that they have a defintion of it that is not the same as mine.
    Go to this link and it will answer many of your questions in detail, the evolution that i dont believe in is where one species turns into a completely different species.... Molecules to Man.

    Dogs breeding dogs?

  4. #34
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    hi Maddogdodge

    So do you believe genes exist and are in a DNA molecule? That you get genes from your parents? But sometimes you get genetic changes from your environment (eg disease, nutrition, radiation can all have an effect on what kind of children you produce)?

    So if your genes are derived mostly from your ancestry - that you would have ones that are shared by other "species".

    And did you know that the lines between some species are blurry... ie it's hard to say where they separate - because they overlap. This is true of the finches on some islands on the galapagos, and of zebra fish (Girella zebra) in the waters between Victoria and South australia and the Giant Cuttlefish around the temperate waters of Australia's southern coast.

    And that they have recently redescribed most botanical species especially acacias - because the ones they thought were separate species were not and ones they thought were the same species were not, and there are some plants that seem like different species but are and are not - ie the blurry line where they overlap.

    So if you define the separation of species by whether or not they can have fertile offspring - then there is still evidence where there was one species, and it was spread over a large habitat, and then the habitat split - eg bass straight, and maybe the climate changed or there were a few bad years in one area that were not in the other area (eg Tasmania vs WA) and sufficiently different criteria for successful breeding - meant that the species split into two. Ie they became sufficiently far apart genetically that they could no longer breed together successfully.

    So back to successful cross breeding - if your only criteria for separate species is the ability for having fertile offspring - then dogs are wolves. And several different "species" of wolves are in fact only one species. And dingos and New Guinea singing dogs - are dogs and Wolves.

    And great danes and chihuahuas are separate species - because if you fertilise a female chi - with a great dane - the pups cannot be born successfully (without a lot of human intervention).

    The scientific study on finches on the Galapagos debunks the link that you give. There's a book "the beak of the finch" that describes the study in language that non-scientists (or scientists not in the field of finch study) can follow.

    Evolution is about having offspring that are little by little better adapted to their environment. In the finches - that happens over a generation or two (couple of years or less). In other creatures - it may take millions of years for adaptations to be so different that those two creatures could not breed successfully (with or without human intervention). There are already dog breeds that cannot mate together successfully without human intervention.

    And humans - are already messing wtih genes in ways that would not happen naturally eg tomatos x salmon, are having successful tomato children...

  5. #35
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    Plus 1 for evolution here. Anything religious sends me into a laughing fit (not to offend anyone that chooses to believe in it). I once got told by a lady that dinosaurs were on Noah's ark 5000 years ago. She was a R.E teacher at a local primary school. My kids (when they come) won't be going to that class

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddogdodge View Post
    Go to this link and it will answer many of your questions in detail, the evolution that i dont believe in is where one species turns into a completely different species.... Molecules to Man.

    Dogs breeding dogs?
    I was watching a documentry by David Attenbourough a while ago and I cant remember the details and I would have to go and refresh my memory to get it right, but he gave some very compelling evidence about how simple molecules became increasingly complex. This took place over billions of years as the atmosphere of the earth changed and became more hospitable to certain life forms. Shark Bay over here in WA have the stromatalites which first ocurred 3.5 billion years ago in an atmosphere that had virtually no oxygen. They are belived to be the organisms that first produced oxygen which then allowed other life forms to evolve.

    I have christian friends that have given me books to read that they believe supports their argument but I have to say that for me it is not as compelling as evolution and the development of life from more simple lifeforms. There is just so much fossil and genetic evidence and we certainly share 96% of our genetic material with chimps.

    Still each to their own and we still dont know the answer to the big question - what was there before the universe exploded into being. That to me is the big mystery.

  7. #37
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    I'm not much for "God" as described in the bible - too many contradictions and he's not very nice - prone to smiting whole cities.

    But I do think that belief in genetics/evolution and the scientific approach to gaining knowledge about our environment is compatible with a believe in a higher power or unifying power of some sort. I'm not sure it has a consciousness or thinks or plans. It definitely works in ways mysterious to me.

    The more you know about sub particle physics, the weirder the world gets. Unexpected possibilities are well explained in "what the bleep do we know?" (book and or movie). So religiosity is good for human evolution ie groups that were held together by religious belief - did better at passing on genes than those that weren't (eg the scientist who forgot to breed). Ie in studies of twins split and raised separately at birth - its the one thing they have in common - how religious they are. I admit I like the social side, and the music and even the story telling.

    And some stuff - seems to ring true - though not in the way one might hope on first reading eg: "Love thy neighbour as thy self" - works as a command and as bland statement of fact, eg if you hate yourself, you're not that brilliant at loving thy neighbour. And "the sins of the fathers are visited on their children" again - could be read as just a statement of fact. The genetics of your ancestry and the mistakes your parents (and their parents' mistakes) make in raising you are all stuff you - the child - have to deal with whether you deserve it or not.

    There do seem to be an aweful lot of people who call themselves "Christian" who have failed to learn the "tolerance" message, or even "other people who are different can stil be ok".

    So how did we get from dog skulls to religion?

    I'm trying to say that I think believing evolution is valid or a good description of how life spreads - is compatible with believing in God if you want to.

    Personally - religion wise - I don't know if there is a God or not. I do think if there is one - that it is nothing like what the Bible says.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    There do seem to be an aweful lot of people who call themselves "Christian" who have failed to learn the "tolerance" message, or even "other people who are different can stil be ok".

    So how did we get from dog skulls to religion?

    I'm trying to say that I think believing evolution is valid or a good description of how life spreads - is compatible with believing in God if you want to.

    Personally - religion wise - I don't know if there is a God or not. I do think if there is one - that it is nothing like what the Bible says.
    I would tend to agree with your whole post. I do have a christian friend who belives that evolution is compatible with her beliefs and she has studied the bible in depth. She remains a Christian despite being thrown out of her church after many years of pretty dedicated participation because she eventually came to terms with the fact that she was a lesbian and her church would not accept that and asked her to leave. She is probably one of the most generous people I know with her time for other people but none of that counted in the eyes of her church. I found that odd.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddogdodge View Post
    In the Bible, in Job chapter 40, it says,"look at the Behemoth which i made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox, what strength he has in his loins what power in the muscels in his belly, his tail sways like a cedar, the sinews of his thighs are close knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs are like rods of iron, he ranks first among the works of God."
    I believe this is a description of a dinosaur, somthing like a Brachiosaurus.

    Also described in Job chapter 41 is the Leviathan, which is a dragon like creature that may also be a description of a dinosaur.
    I have a book with Aboriginal stories and some of them seem to describe dinosaur-like creatures. Just throwing it out there...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crested_Love View Post
    I read this on a site a while ago...

    Take a petri dish full of bacteria and introduce a toxin that kills 99.999% of it. Keep re-applying the toxin and eventually, BAM, you have bacteria immune to a particular toxin. They have evolved to cope with the poison.

    Evolution may just be a theory but it's what I believe in.

    Remember gravity is still just a theory too, but you wouldn't take a leap out of your 2 storey window
    MRSA is because bacteria evolved just like you are saying here.....And many more bacteria and viruses are evolving in the same way........
    Pets are forever

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