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Thread: 'Oodles' 'Schnoos' 'Aliers' and 'Poos'

  1. #111

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    If a dog isn't papered how can you PROVE it's purebred.

    I could breed a lhasa apso to a shih tzu and call it a purebred shih tzu... They look similar enough for the average pet owner not to be able to tell the difference.

  2. #112

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    Pet stores apparently aren't allowed to sell them with papers..I think that is an excuse to sell a dog which looks like a pure bred, as a pure bred, or to sell a pure bred from a back yard breeder where there is no actual proof if it has anything else in it. The ones which have had proper breeding and proper health checks, will not be sold in pet stores. They will have papers even if on limited register and sold desexed as pet only. There is absolutely no reason for a registered breeder to sell their pups through a pet store.

  3. #113

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    From the ANKC code of ethics:

    26. A member shall not:
    .1 Sell or dispose of a dog to a commercial pet wholesaler or retail pet shop unless they
    are accredited by the Pet Industry Association of Australia Limited (PIAA).
    .2 Allow a dog owned by that member to be given as a prize or donation or to be
    auctioned.

    Seems there are only 6 pet stores nation wide that are accredited:
    PIAA - Accredited Members

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crested_Love View Post
    If a dog isn't papered how can you PROVE it's purebred.

    I could breed a lhasa apso to a shih tzu and call it a purebred shih tzu... They look similar enough for the average pet owner not to be able to tell the difference.
    Yea I guess you cant necessarily prove they are purebred...but I was more just meaning that if a lab is bred to a lab the pups are still purebred whether they have papers or not.

    But, pet shops DO sell purebred pups. Lots of them...they arent all cute oodles. OK so you cant prove they are pure but it doesnt stop them being pure.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lala View Post
    Yea I guess you cant necessarily prove they are purebred...but I was more just meaning that if a lab is bred to a lab the pups are still purebred whether they have papers or not.

    But, pet shops DO sell purebred pups. Lots of them...they arent all cute oodles. OK so you cant prove they are pure but it doesnt stop them being pure.
    Without papers it really is impossible to tell if a dog is purebred or not. The phenotype or outward appearance may look purebred but the actual genetics may say otherwise.

    However it is not for me the issue of if a dog is crossbred or purebred as in the working world our dogs can be registered based on working ability and their pedigrees will sometimes show splashes of kelpies or collies in each others pedigrees (but will still look eith pure BC or kelpie). It is the knowledge that we know the ancestory of our dogs and have a good idea by looking at those lines as to how the dog might work, its health status etc.

    Buying a dog of unknown origin regardless of it apparent appearance from a pet shop is fraught with danger. A friend of mine euthanaised her pet shop bought oodle at age 3 with severe HD, same may also occur to a so called purebred. They dont have any papers so being pure or cross means nothing. What means something is that you have knowledge of their ancestory and the backing and knowledge of a good breeder and therefore a good idea of what to expect.

    It can sometimes save heartache and expense and other things.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 12-25-2011 at 09:40 AM.

  6. #116
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    I dont disagree with that at all Kala!

    However, thats not to say you cant get knowledge of ancestry...I guess in a petshop its much harder, but a BYB should be able to still provide this information in an unofficial capacity (I guess it depends how honest they are though).

    And going on a tangent, I believe I have just talked a good mate of mine and his wife out of buying a cavoodle. I dont have a problem with the cavoodle being bred, but from the looks of it, the woman doesnt breed to demand and she performs no testing at all....which I do not agree with. If she did those things, then I wouldnt have had a problem with it. Although he showed me some of the emails sent which wer ejust full of rubbish.

    Anyway, last I heard him and his wife were now considering the SPCA to take home an unwanted instead. Yay go them - though will have to wait and see what the final decision is.

  7. #117
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    I guess it depends on the BYB. I myself have a dog from a registered ANKC breeder that at the time 11 years ago the breeder didnt register the dogs they sold as pets. I have a copy of her parents pedigrees one of which is an Australian champion. So technically if I had bred her (I sterilised her)to another similar dog yes I would know her ancestory as a line of names on a piece of paper. But I wouldnt have the detailed knowledge of these lines and how I might improve the genetics that the breeder would have.

    I think it is the knowledge of the ancestory and what it means in terms of health, and genetic charateristics that is important. A piece of paper is a piece of paper, what you really want is the knowledge behind that piece of paper. Breeding a cav with a poodle - I would ask myself does the breeder understand the ancestory of each dog and will that give her/him good knowledge of the mating. Is it carefully thought through as a genetically good match, or is just putting 2 dogs together to produce a popular mix.

    Testing the parents is one thing but for some conditions like the dysplsias the understanding of the genetics that have gone into the parents is often more important. Experienced breeders can often tell things by looking at a line of dogs. Certainly for working breeders the bloodlines that go into the parents is more important than just testing the parents. They also know that some lines dont go well together, which is why knowledge of ancestory is important. This would apply equally I would have thought to breeding dogs in general. You can get terrible genetic clashes and the less detail you know of the dogs lines the more crapshot it is likely to be. Could be good, could be very bad.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 12-25-2011 at 06:42 PM.

  8. #118
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    Yep I agree with that.
    When talking my mate out of the cav/poodle though I have focussed mainly on health testing. Whether the parents are complimentary etc is a bit of a hard concept to get across to people when all they really want is a cute healthy pup to love.

  9. #119
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    I've just caught up with this thread and oh boy. I find the accusation that those who don't oppose crossbreeding don't care about dogs' well being or them being dumped very offensive.

    And this idea is kept going in this thread because some people still seem to be unable to separate the issues of cross breeding and the conditions in which the dogs are bred and sold. Sigh...

    No, I probably would not buy a crossbred pup from a breeder. I would not buy a purebred one either. Yes, I would try to persuade people to get a rescue instead of going to a breeder. Any breeder. Because Lala is right. If purebred breeders would stop breeding, we might finally clear the pounds! Honestly, I don't know why only people wanting to get a crossbred pup are accused of leaving the dogs at the pound to rot. Why did you not get a rescue dog? Ah, because "people want what they want". Does anyone lecture you for wanting a specific purebred dog?

    Some of you are really hung up on this whole idea of "you know what you get with purebreds". The thought doesn't seem to occur to you that lots of dog owners may be fine with not knowing how their dog will turn out exactly. But just like I like that I can guess that my mutt "probably" has some kelpie in her, they may like the idea of a dog with "some" poodle and "some" cavoodle in him. It just doesn't matter much to them which parts of which they get.

    If they wouldn't be breeding these crosses, the same people buying them now would probably buy a purebred. I wonder if they would still be accused then of falling for the 'cute puppy' idea or dumping their dog at the drop of a hat. They'd be the same people though, buying a pup for the same reasons.

    Down here you very, very rarely see designer crosses end up at the shelter. The vast majority of dumped dogs are staffies and kelpies, a great deal of them look like purebreds too.

    But I am sure that the view from your high horse is wonderful...

  10. #120

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    If you're talking about the DAS pound Beloz you are mistaken. There are regularly designer type crossbreds in there, and the regional pounds surrounding the ACT see their share as well. They pretty much always end up in rescue. RSPCA are more likely to transfer them to DAS in accordance with their policy of trying to keep the "less homeable" dogs which can benefit from their behavioural training and no kill policies.

    How many purebreds do you see in the same pounds? Some yes. But less certainly than even the DDs. So your argument about purebred breeders stopping so we can empty pounds is garbage.

    And just as you say you would never buy a purebred puppy, I would never adopt a crossbred rescue dog. So how would I ever help reduce animals in pounds if I stopped buying from breeders?

    Less than five of my breed have turned up in pounds nationwide over the last 20 years. The same holds true for a great many pure breeds. These breeds and their breeders are not responsible for the unwanted dogs in pounds. The vast majority of dogs in pounds are crossbreds. Stop breeding those and the pounds would start to empty a whole lot faster.

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